External DAC with Connect

@Majik
"Actually me being a moderator (which is largely an administrative task) should have any bearing on this. What matters is what the community wants.

Of course, opinions will be divided, but the majority of the community (or maybe the most vocal) seems to favour rationality over blind faith (which, at the moment, seems to be the only alternative being offered)."

Here's the problem that I have..for a long time now the Majority, of which you really are a member of, consists of almost exclusively some pretty hard core objectivists (for lack of a better term) We know who it is.. there's jaGatie, and kumar,chicks, ratty, nobob and the other half a dozen or so ..That's the "community" that you're speaking of. The problem is that when anyone else comes on to this forum and mentions they hear a difference.. and it doesn't matter what kind of difference, or what type of product, they just get piled on by your "community".. Oh they'll try for a bit to posit their point of view, and have a reasonable and fun time but after a bit of frequently rude or demeaning bullying they realize it's simply not worth their time or effort and move on.

I remember back in the early days of this forum when Sonos was a new product there was lots of fun discussion of how things sounded, how people felt about different versions of firmware sounded, or coax, vs optical cables or different codec's.. That actual sense of community is long gone.. replaced by what feels like a group that's just waiting to pounce on any unsuspecting newbie who doesn't hold the same opinions as they do.. What a shame..

"Rude bullying" like accusations that ears are not trained properly or the system is too cheap to show the differences that the golden eared, wealthy, and more discerning audiophiles hear? Also, the almost automatic accusations of "closed mindedness" and "not listening" that have been debunked a hundred times? Let's face it, the insults flow freely from both sides, neither are innocent. Though one side does have truth and science on their side, in addition to insults, so I understand the frustration when your only defense is to belittle the ears, equipment and attitude of others. :rolleyes:

And please don't make me post links to rudeness from the subjectivists. I'm on a tablet right now, and cutting and pasting hundreds of posts will be a pain.

Let's not go off the rail and start slinging mud at the "opposition".

Of course, opinions will be divided, but the majority of the community (or maybe the most vocal) seems to favour rationality over blind faith (which, at the moment, seems to be the only alternative being offered)."

What other alternative to rationality are you suggesting to the one you have stated?

That part wasn't my post, it was Majik's

But I do have a suggestion, why not have a Audiophile section of the forum? Then those that want to post about what they hear etc can do so and those that think it's all BS can stay out and not be bothered. Heck I'll even volunteer to be the moderater..

Another approach is one that Alan Shaw over in the Harbeth forums has started to kick off 2015.

He and many other users support the view that any modern stereo amplifier that has adequate power so as to not be driven out of its designed limits by the speaker load will yield the same sound quality from any Harbeth speaker in a DBT - it is therefore not necessary to pick one for sonic signature, but look to things like features, reliability and after sales support instead.

This view gets expressed over and over again - ad nauseam - in threads started by someone that comes along every couple of months claiming to hear unique sonic magic from their amp - which typically tends to be expensive and usually inadequately powered. Low powered valve amps are the usual suspects, though not the only ones. Almost all are much more expensive than the mass market makes.

The 2015 action is to start a thread and stop such discussions by moderating them out in a forum where all posts are subject to moderation before release, by pointing to the thread which explains the thinking.

Digital tech beyond CDPs isn't common there, so there aren't many such discussions around DACs even though the forum philosophy in general is that if an improvement can't be heard in a well constructed DBT, it doesn't exist and is a pointless pursuit for maker and buyer. Or perhaps not so pointless for the maker.

The other forum that operates on similar lines for a long time now is Hydrogenaudio.
PS: If interested, check out Alan's first post on the thread here:
http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?2473-Revised-HUG-mission-statement-for-2015&p=32218#post32218

Another approach is one that Alan Shaw over in the Harbeth forums has started to kick off 2015.
I'd support this approach for the Sonos forums.

The argument is never ending in audio as to what constitutes better sound. There is certainly no denying that snake oil exist to some extent but that's painting with a broad brush isn't it ?

If I'm in the market for a Ferrari, and want some insight as to how it drives, I would ask someone who actually sat in the seat and took it for a spin rather than someone who read about how it drives off the internet.

All amps sound the same, cables too, dacs don't matter, blah blah, same old song and dance from people with little to no experience with a variety of gear.

You simply have to experience some things in life for yourself, and that goes beyond audio too. There are those who are happy with what they have and that's all well and good, but there are still others who seek out better. Experiment with some different stuff in your home, in your system with your ears. Not such a tall order is it ? If your that interested in audio anyway.

Experiment with some different stuff in your home, in your system with your ears. Not such a tall order is it ? If your (sic) that interested in audio anyway.

I've been through dozens of amps, preamps, integrated amps and receivers over the past few years. Not a one of them sounded better than the others, once tone controls were disabled and volumes matched. But then that's been proven since at least as far back as when Peter Walker was running QUAD, hasn't it?

Same experience with interconnects and speaker cables. If they're of sufficient quality to meet the need, there simply is no difference between the Belkins and the absurdly priced ones.

Speakers, of course, are different. There is no perfect transducer. I believe my QUAD ESL-63s get as close to ideal as is currently possible, but that's far from perfect, and they don't have the dynamic range of dynamic drivers. Would love to hear some big Harbeths some day.