Beam + Sub upgrade

Lol. Let me see if I can shine some light if you specify what you want to achieve - not in terms of equipment, but as outcomes - and a budget.

OK. As I wrote, current set up (Beam+Sub) is ok for me for watching TV. Beam alone was a bit lackig, but good enough. I added the Sub trying to improve music listening. And it did, for sure.

Most of the time, I just play music doing something else or moving around, so it’s ok as well. But when I want to listen to a song or an album, I feel I’m missing definition, details, spacial separation (stage?).

I sometimes have the feeling I’m listening to a mono recording, sound coming from a spot (I’m exaggerating).

I realized that especially listening to the same song with a couple of decent earbuds (CA Melomenia 1+) - as I said, decent, no h-fi.

I listen to rock music mostly (all sort), a bit of jazz&blues, a bit of classical, “classic pop”.

I usually keep the volume low (25-35 in the app).

I’m no audiophile or hi-fi expert.

Budget is… tricky. I already spent more than expected and wasn’t planning to invest any more.

I’m raising the bar, but also the expectation. So I’m willing to invest more, but I “require” solid results.

Let’s say I’d stay close to 1,000, but can go higher. Not over 1,500 for sure.

Does this help?

Here is the final solution to work towards, that needs a speaker pair kept flanking the TV such that the two speakers and the listening area are three corners of roughly equal lengths.

The speakers need to be decent bookshelf units from makes such as Dali/KEF/Q Acoustics, but not their smallest sized ones, such that very decent bass can still be delivered by these even without a Sub in the mix. These would be powered by a Sonos Amp. This would serve for all your music listening needs far better than Beam + Sub.

The Beam and the Sub can be left as now, for just TV listening. But there is also an opportunity to get rid of both, if not just the Beam. To test for this, wire the analog audio out jacks on the TV to the line in on the Sonos amp, and disconnect Beam and Sub from the TV. Set the delay settings on the Amp to the minimum. Play TV via the Sonos Amp and the flanking speakers and see if the small delay in lipsync is a distraction - I have never found it to be so even when looking for it. The same illusion that the two flanking speakers deliver that yields the stereo image for music if placed as above, will also deliver a phantom centre channel effect for the TV audio that will still allow dialogue to appear to come from the screen, without any speaker in the centre. If this test works for TV, sell the Beam.

Moving on to the Sub - if it can be placed somewhere between the two flanking speakers, it can be used by bonding it to the Sonos Amp, to provide all the well integrated bass anyone really needs, for both music and TV. If it cannot be so placed, or if the bass is adequate for both needs with just the flanking speakers as it often is, sell the Sub as well. Or, if it cannot be so placed, keep the Beam + Sub for just TV.

All the preceding should let you know if just the Sonos Amp and two good flanking speaker set up works well for you for both music and TV. It serves me very well, and I don’t need either a sound bar or the Sub for my dedicated to TV room that has this set up for a 50 Inch plasma screen. I have a Sub, but that is deployed for just music in another room, bonded to a play 1 pair.

And if you can sell the Beam and the Sub at used kit market prices which tend to be quite good for Sonos kit, the investment needed in net terms would just be a couple of hundred USD. And if not and if you feel the need to retain both Beam and Sub, USD 1500 still should cover it.

This is obvious, even so: In the set up described, the TV needs to be close to the exact centre between the two flanking speakers.

The other thing that will need some clever shopping moves to achieve: If it is found that the Sub can be deployed for both music and TV, bonded to the Sonos amp, the flanking speakers need not be as bass capable as otherwise, and can therefore even be the smaller and cheaper ones offered by the referred makes - high frequency and mid range quality does not need the larger speaker boxes to do enough justice to the bass lines; if the Sub is in the mix, it takes over these duties, and such shopping will then drive down the further investment needed, offsetting to a degree the “cost” of keeping the Sub.

The other clever thing possible is if you can access the used market for such speakers. At about half the price of new as is quite common there, this can make for excellent deals.

Thanks.

This is actually one of choices I was evaluating. I’m getting from your answer a couple 5s won’t be a good fit for my needs and expectations.

A doubt: you’re suggesting the Sonos Amp, to allow me to exploit the Sub, and generally what other Sonos devices I already have, correct?

If I were to part ways from Sonos and sell Beam and Sub, would you still suggest to get an Amp?

Cheers, Paolo

Absolutely, none of the principles change, but it does not need to be a Sonos Amp. And there are still some makes of amps like Rotel or even Marantz that will give you the same outcomes your now dead Marantz did, for decades. Make sure it has a phono jack, if you will be adding a turntable. Wire even just a humble Echo Dot to a line in jack pair on it, and you will get music via streaming services, with the sound determined by only the quality of speakers driven by the amp. Echo sound quality as a source device is just as good as that of anything from Sonos.

And since the amp will not have to propagate signal wirelessly as well, as the Sonos Amp does, there will be not even the small lip-sync delay that Sonos Amp will have, that I referred to.

A couple of 5 units will in this case be the equivalent of Sonos Amp + third party speakers, functionally. Sound quality will be determined by the speakers in use in either case with the Sonos Amp route offering you more options.

Does Sonos offer home trial in Italy? If so you could try the One’s as a stereo pair - and you have a Sub already to play with. If that works out and you like the sound, you have the option to keep or sell the Beam. If you don’t like the Ones you return them and try the Fives. (I assume Sonos would be happy with this: why else have the home trial offer available?)

The One cannot be connected to the TV in any way - no line in jacks. The Beam will then have to stay for TV use. And I find that a flaking pair of stereo speakers work far better for TV than a sound bar kept under the TV.

But if music listening is the key requirement (unless I’ve misread above) the One’s and Sub may deliver that, for a lower additional outlay. 

Thank you all.

I’m not confident about adding a couple Ones, because they will surely improve stage (L-R separation), but I don’t think they will improve clarity and definition. When I listened to a couple 1s and a Beam in a shop, I did not felt much difference in terms of quality - other than stereo/stage. In the same shop there was a single 5, and I thought it was way better than a couple ones.

Anyway, I’ll give all this a serious thought.

Thanks again guys.