Retired Sonos Staff

End of Software Support - Clarifications

Dec 8, 2022 11:29 AM UTC
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We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer.

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features.

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features.

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features.

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade.

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

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A

attacama40

Headliner I

@attacama40 you hit the nail on the head with your last point. If Sonos would come out and say “We will let you keep your legacy and modern devices in a single controller, groupable as before, with music playing on multiple devices. The legacy devices will NOT get code upgrades, thus if any future music services are added they may not work and will not be supported even if they do. Existing music services will work as long as the provider of that service does not substantially change their protocol, but will not be supported if they do on legacy devices due to no further software updates”

Your hypothetical quote is actually close to want Sonos has actually said, but seems to get lost in all the misinformation.

“We will let you keep your legacy and modern devices in a single controller, groupable as before, with music playing on multiple devices. This legacy system will NOT get code upgrades, thus if any future music services are added they may not work and will not be supported even if they do. Existing music services will work as long as the provider of that service does not substantially change their protocol, but will be support these changes within the limits of the legacy hardware”

It seems to me like the biggest complaint here is that they are going to completely brick our existing deployments, which looks like after the 2/22 update isn't completely the case, but they didn't exactly reassure us of the above because they were vague.

Existing deployments will not be bricked at all. Certain features will eventually stop working as third party services, etc advanced beyond what the legacy hardware can handle. Yes, there are parts of the message that is vague, but much of the confusion about what is happen is incorrect information that is being spread around. Part of that is because people are exaggerating points intentionally, which is somewhat understandable given frustration, in order to make the highly unlikely outcomes seem more likely.

Exactly that. Say as you do and do as you say. Then we can all carry on being white box guys.

Strangely I suspect (but don’t know) that Sonos will come out with a reasonable solution for the reasonable 80%. And I get that they have traditionally been conservative with expectation setting .… I was one of those who waited years for the ‘Audible solution’ … and it was a good solution even if two birthday’s passed!

The above makes it sound as if Sonos hasn’t provide any information about what’s going to happen in May at all. They have explained the difference between modern and legacy devices, modern and legacy systems (not great naming conventions here), who the systems will separate, which systems will get updates and what systems will get security and bug fixes. What they had not stated is the specific mechanics of this, I suspect because they have not 100% settled on the mechanics yet.

I doubt boxes will get bricked. I doubt Spotify will stop working like a seized brake caliper. I suspect that those of us who just want things that work will most likely be happy for another few years after May’s work.

The above is all things that have been said, by Sonos. The said legacy systems will continue to work after May...not bricked. They have said that they can’t guaratnee Spotify won’t change things after May, but it’s unlikely.

Given that pedigree and likelihood, why the hell wait? Why not just say it and then do it?

It sounds as if what you want to hear as already been said. Yes, there absolutely are details and mechanics that need to be spelled out, that Sonos has stated they will provide in May, but I’m not seeing you ask for anything that hasn’t been said already.

Also, nothing wrong with looking around at other options. I would just recommend that it be done objectively, knowing that other companies can run into the same sort of issues Sonos has.

You seem a little easier pleased than the majority of us Danny. Statements have been well intended but vague and inconclusive at best. And that is why folks still ask.

And you really have to ask yourself … why do folks still ask?

Like I say, we have a small amount of evangelists and a small amount of folks who want to see Sonos burn. The majority of us are neither. We just want to steer a straight course and get back to being ‘white box man’.

And you maybe miss the point a few make. We don’t really want to look elsewhere, we just want clarity. In the absence of genuine clarity, folks will look elsewhere.

It does strike me that the enthusiasts seem to find clarity quite easily. The angry crowd will never see answers as there will be little left to be angry about. That just leaves the rest of us who I suspect are the majority who just want to get on with it as soon as we can see solidity.

And I have said several times that I appreciate the data that has come from Sonos. It’s just not enough.

I count myself as a C+ level intelligence level bloke. I did not see solidity yet. Again I think I’m in the majority.

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Ken_Griffiths

I agree that the 'roon’ subscription, or 'one-off' lifetime, payment is too expensive, plus I don’t like the fact the player/software needs to always be running on the network. For those Sonos customers that use iOS etc; it’s probably just easier to leave a single AirPlay compatible Sonos device attached to a 'legacy' system, to group with another AirPlay device in the 'modern' system and play to both in sync… then group each of those with any other Sonos devices (legacy and/or modern). At least that would be a free (or cheaper) method of achieving the same thing with divided Sonos products. So I don’t personally see ‘roon’ as being a great alternative option for many Sonos users, post the May Sonos announcement.

If that was possible, then there wouldn’t be a necessity to separate legacy and modern components anyway. It’s been said, that we aren’t going to be able to group legacy and modern devices together, when being in separated systems; and grouping non-Airplay-enabled items within the Sonos app is nothing else. Or am I missing something?

If you have two separate Sonos Households on the same subnet with an AirPlay compatible device in each, then you can group them in the iOS interface to play to both (despite them being in different Sonos households) … so my thoughts are that might work with a 'legacy' and 'modern’ based separated system too.

In a legacy system you can group an AirPlay speaker with any Sonos speaker (AirPlay compstible or otherwise) within the same household. So my thoughts are you maybe able to link the two different Sonos systems in this way, but it perhaps depends how the divide will 'eventually’ work. AirPlay works across an entire subnet… Sonos devices currently only work together through the Sonos App in the same household… but perhaps AirPlay will be one method/protocol that can bridge the two?

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melvimbe

You seem a little easier pleased than the majority of us Danny. Statements have been well intended but vague and inconclusive at best. And that is why folks still ask.

And you really have to ask yourself … why do folks still ask?

I already stated that the message wasn’t as clear as it needed to be AND that there is a lot of misinformation going around. I would also add that people seem to be selectively ignoring what’s been said, for some reason, perhaps because it’s just not the answer they want to hear. Regardless, the 1st reason is the only thing Sonos has a lot of control over, and I suspect they don’t want to give out details that has not been decided on yet.

Like I say, we have a small amount of evangelists and a small amount of folks who want to see Sonos burn. The majority of us are neither. We just want to steer a straight course and get back to being ‘white box man’.

And you maybe miss the point a few make. We don’t really want to look elsewhere, we just want clarity. In the absence of genuine clarity, folks will look elsewhere.

I have not see the 3 separate distinct groups of Sonos customers that you’re talking about, and I don’t think you need to speak for anyone else but yourself to make your points. I hear you say that you don’t want to look elsewhere. Then don’t. Just wait till May when more information comes out. If you don’t like what you hear then, you can start looking elsewhere at that point. Your Sonos system is not going to immediately brick or anything like that, as you have already stated that you’re aware of.

It does strike me that the enthusiasts seem to find clarity quite easily. The angry crowd will never see answers as there will be little left to be angry about. That just leaves the rest of us who I suspect are the majority who just want to get on with it as soon as we can see solidity.

Speaking for myself only, I think the basics are pretty well stated. I understand that there are mechanics to be worked out, but I think it’s fair, and wise for Sonos to keep that information to themselves for now, since they could change between now and May. Inaccurate information is worse than no information. There are risks that certain services will stop functioning, but they are very very low in May, and only slowing increasing over time.

And I have said several times that I appreciate the data that has come from Sonos. It’s just not enough.

As I said before, it seems as though the data that has come out isn’t trusted for various reasons already stated above. I don’t think Sonos can resolve that trust issue by putting out more information than some are not going to trust, that could very well change between now and May.

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Danny

J

John B

The details are not yet available, but the four fundamental options are clear: legacy system, split system, upgrade or sell. The only real area of uncertainty is around exactly what ‘split system’ looks like. We’ll know in May and I am not sure Sonos knows every detail of that yet. As Danny says, Sonos would be unwise to create expectations that are not subsequently met.

I suspect that what some people really want is an update on progress of the simple ‘magic box’ that is going to make the whole issue go away. I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one….

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W

WSu

Enthusiast II

The details are not yet available, but the four fundamental options are clear: legacy system, split system, upgrade or sell. The only real area of uncertainty is around exactly what ‘split system’ looks like. We’ll know in May and I am not sure Sonos knows every detail of that yet. As Danny says, Sonos would be unwise to create expectations that are not subsequently met.

I suspect that what some people really want is an update on progress of the simple ‘magic box’ that is going to make the whole issue go away. I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one….

“simple magic box” sounds quite dismissive of the idea of the device. The thing is, it would not only solve the current issue but it would also ensure reasonable confidence in the products going forward. Device reaches end of life? No issues, you flash a basic, dumb, receiver only firmware that will never die and your magic box handles actual software upgrades. Perfect? No. But *if* such a simple magic box were to come into production (at a reasonable price as it’s intention is to fix “shortcomings” in the product range, and you may need more than one to cover your estate) then I would be happy to keep buying Sonos.

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J

John B

The details are not yet available, but the four fundamental options are clear: legacy system, split system, upgrade or sell. The only real area of uncertainty is around exactly what ‘split system’ looks like. We’ll know in May and I am not sure Sonos knows every detail of that yet. As Danny says, Sonos would be unwise to create expectations that are not subsequently met.

I suspect that what some people really want is an update on progress of the simple ‘magic box’ that is going to make the whole issue go away. I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one….

“simple magic box” sounds quite dismissive of the idea of the device. The thing is, it would not only solve the current issue but it would also ensure reasonable confidence in the products going forward. Device reaches end of life? No issues, you flash a basic, dumb, receiver only firmware that will never die and your magic box handles actual software upgrades. Perfect? No. But *if* such a simple magic box were to come into production (at a reasonable price as it’s intention is to fix “shortcomings” in the product range, and you may need more than one to cover your estate) then I would be happy to keep buying Sonos.

I admire your confidence in your understanding of the complexities of how Sonos does multiroom, multisource, multi-controller audio. I have no such confidence in my own understanding. What I do believe is that if it were as simple as transferring the workload to another unit Sonos would almost certainly have worked that out long ago.

I could be wrong, of course. We’ll find out in May.

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W

WSu

Enthusiast II

The details are not yet available, but the four fundamental options are clear: legacy system, split system, upgrade or sell. The only real area of uncertainty is around exactly what ‘split system’ looks like. We’ll know in May and I am not sure Sonos knows every detail of that yet. As Danny says, Sonos would be unwise to create expectations that are not subsequently met.

I suspect that what some people really want is an update on progress of the simple ‘magic box’ that is going to make the whole issue go away. I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one….

“simple magic box” sounds quite dismissive of the idea of the device. The thing is, it would not only solve the current issue but it would also ensure reasonable confidence in the products going forward. Device reaches end of life? No issues, you flash a basic, dumb, receiver only firmware that will never die and your magic box handles actual software upgrades. Perfect? No. But *if* such a simple magic box were to come into production (at a reasonable price as it’s intention is to fix “shortcomings” in the product range, and you may need more than one to cover your estate) then I would be happy to keep buying Sonos.

I admire your confidence in your understanding of the complexities of how Sonos does multiroom, multisource, multi-controller audio. I have no such confidence in my own understanding. What I do believe is that if it were as simple as transferring the workload to another unit Sonos would almost certainly have worked that out long ago.

I could be wrong, of course. We’ll find out in May.

Thanks, your sarcasm is much appreciated. I honestly don’t know why I bother replying to some people.

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melvimbe

“simple magic box” sounds quite dismissive of the idea of the device. The thing is, it would not only solve the current issue but it would also ensure reasonable confidence in the products going forward. Device reaches end of life? No issues, you flash a basic, dumb, receiver only firmware that will never die and your magic box handles actual software upgrades. Perfect? No. But *if* such a simple magic box were to come into production (at a reasonable price as it’s intention is to fix “shortcomings” in the product range, and you may need more than one to cover your estate) then I would be happy to keep buying Sonos.

That all sounds great from a consumer perspective, but does it makes sense from a Sonos perspective? We are talking about a device that only has interest in a limited market (consumers who already have legacy products, and are interested in keeping them running), that will only get smaller in time. Although I imagine Sonos would be happy to break even or take a slight loss with this product, can they do that after considering the cost of development, manufacturing, and support...all under an accelerated process to get in to consumers by May? Perhaps if Sonos could make up the loss in other sales, like an Amazon or Google could, then they could afford to take a big loss. I don’t even know if it would really help keep customers buying Sonos products, since many of the legacy effected customers will go eles where, prefer to by modern products, or are insulted that they are asked to pay at all.

As John said, maybe it happens in May, but there are plenty of reasons that it won’t happen, despite some customers feeling it would be great for their system and fix any concerns they have about Sonos.

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Danny

User694694

Enthusiast II

“simple magic box” sounds quite dismissive of the idea of the device. The thing is, it would not only solve the current issue but it would also ensure reasonable confidence in the products going forward. Device reaches end of life? No issues, you flash a basic, dumb, receiver only firmware that will never die and your magic box handles actual software upgrades. Perfect? No. But *if* such a simple magic box were to come into production (at a reasonable price as it’s intention is to fix “shortcomings” in the product range, and you may need more than one to cover your estate) then I would be happy to keep buying Sonos.

That all sounds great from a consumer perspective, but does it makes sense from a Sonos perspective? We are talking about a device that only has interest in a limited market (consumers who already have legacy products, and are interested in keeping them running), that will only get smaller in time. Although I imagine Sonos would be happy to break even or take a slight loss with this product, can they do that after considering the cost of development, manufacturing, and support...all under an accelerated process to get in to consumers by May? Perhaps if Sonos could make up the loss in other sales, like an Amazon or Google could, then they could afford to take a big loss. I don’t even know if it would really help keep customers buying Sonos products, since many of the legacy effected customers will go eles where, prefer to by modern products, or are insulted that they are asked to pay at all.

As John said, maybe it happens in May, but there are plenty of reasons that it won’t happen, despite some customers feeling it would be great for their system and fix any concerns they have about Sonos.

May is a self imposed deadline that Sonos is free to change. As far as I know, there is no looming Y2K happening in May that makes that date necessary. Having said that, I largely agree with your post that there is a high probability that the cost to bring such a product to market (even in a non-accelerated time frame) probably doesn’t make financial sense.

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melvimbe

May is a self imposed deadline that Sonos is free to change. As far as I know, there is no looming Y2K happening in May that makes that date necessary. Having said that, I largely agree with your post that there is a high probability that the cost to bring such a product to market (even in a non-accelerated time frame) probably doesn’t make financial sense.

The date is self imposed, but surely not arbitrary. I would guess that there are functional and/or new product changes they want to release around this time, since they have done so in previous recent years. Pushing this event back could also push those dates back. As well, I would bet Sonos wants to minimize the impact this has on the Christmas retail season. And these are just guesses, could be other postives and negatives about the date that we aren’t aware of.

Regardless, I doubt that Sonos didn’t plan this event recently, so I really should assume that any development of a product would need to be fast tracked. If a product did make sense financially or otherwise, they could have started work on it a long time ago.

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Danny

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