Retired Sonos Staff

End of Software Support - Clarifications

Dec 8, 2022 11:29 AM UTC
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We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer.

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features.

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features.

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features.

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade.

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

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user_end_of_lifed

Enthusiast II

Does anyone have any idea what features the May firmware update is going to add that resulted in the “Legacy/Modern” decision?

Well, this is one of the biggest indicators that it’s all rubbish, isn’t it? If the situation Sonos are claiming was real (the devices have run out of capability) then the whole thing would have happened the other way around - something (eg. Spotify) would have broken, then Sonos would have said ‘Sorry everyone, we can’t implement the necessary fix on the Play 5 because they just aren’t capable enough’.

The fact that they’ve announced the situation in advance is pretty strong evidence that they’re just looking for a scapegoat to hide behind.

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nputtick

Trending Lyricist I

The system needs to do what it has to do. We all have features we want and don't want. This really isn't about evidence. It seems overwhelmingly likely to me that this is about technical limitations. That a certain amount of conmon capability is needed. To others it looks like a money grab. Although in the same breath they say Sonos are committing commercial suicide.

So believe what you like.

I dont expect the old speakers to stream flac…..

They have done for years…. I’ve never used anything else...

What bitrate?

CD quality...

My issues were with higher than CD quality flac rips, particularly with multi rooms running at the same time. Anyway glad it is working well for you.

Sonos has run 16bit 44.1kHz stereo (standard CD audio) from day one. It has never supported 24 bit, SACD etc. FLAC encoded to CD standard is the generally preferred codec. Of course you can stream mp3 etc but I wanted CD quality, and have had that for over 8 years. I do not personally know anyone, after extended testing, who can actually hear a difference between CD at 16 bit and any 24 bit source, provided they are played on the same high end equipment as an A/B comparison. So Sonos has met my audio needs, over a period when there was little competition that worked as well at a reasonable price. But this debacle changes things, and the market has moved on. Unless a reasonable solution (eg a smarter Boost that will supply audio over Sonosnet mesh to all Sonis components) is found, Sonos is dead. It’s ironic that their Nasdaq handle is SONO … so, no.

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billiejoe87

Chromatic Producer I

None of my speakers are legacy but I agree with all the sentiment here. I’ve never seen anything like this and the backlash is unprecedented. Even on non tech forums and major newspapers people are encouraging others to not buy Sonos anymore. This is a PR nightmare. Sonos have overnight shown how to ruin a company after over a decade of having a great name.

Sonos sold this product as having wonderful advantages over bluetooth. They never said that they would turn off support and leave everyone high and dry. These are not items anyone would expect to replace every 5 years nor would many people be able to afford to when they have been encouraged to fill their house full of speakers. If Sonos planned to pull support on these speakers they at minimum should have placed a protocol like Bluetooth on the speakers to allow them to be used independently off the proprietary software.

There is a class action waiting to happen against Sonos and it will be thoroughly deserved. The way they have treated customer’s since this new CEO came in is disgraceful. The fact Sonos hasn’t even bothered to cover this up by announcing new features that supposedly cause the older speakers to no longer be compatible shows how much contempt they have.

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1 x Arc, 1 x Beam Gen 2, 1 x Amp, 2 x Sonos In Ceiling Speakers, 2 x Sub, 4 x Sonos Ones, 2 x Sonos Era 100, 5 x Symfonisk Lamp (Gen 2)

Kumar

To name this thread “Clarifications” is a joke, I am more confused, angry and sad than I was before reading it. Sonos’ communication on this whole thing is beyond abysmal. This is like finding out that the woman you loved and envisioned living with until the end of days suddenly turning schizophrenic and psychotic. You cannot believe it, but she is incommunicable. You want it to not be true, and hope for the best, but you realize that you may have to end it.

Lol. I can think of an obvious analogy of using Line In jacks... :zipper_mouth:

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Kumar

I do not personally know anyone, after extended testing, who can actually hear a difference between CD at 16 bit and any 24 bit source, provided they are played on the same high end equipment as an A/B comparison. So Sonos has met my audio needs

Hear hear. But here is the thing - Sonos keeps getting hammered over and over and over on these lines: Good but….Hi Res is missing. Ad nauseam.

The marketing people must be desperate by now to get Hi res into Sonos so they can punch back at this “truth”. The quoted because “repeat a lie over and over and over, people start taking it for the truth” - Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s minister for propaganda - in modern words, minister for marketing.

Even if this means jettisoning swathes of the installed base.

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attacama40

Headliner I

Whilst I’m tense about Sonos announcements and management since I got my device death list, I’m still listening to what Sonos have to say.

I’m in the listening camp but close towards joining the ‘f**k you’ camp. Whilst it’s ruined my enthusiasm for the brand, I’m still using it 8 hours of most days and I hope they do pull a fat rabbit out of the hat and shut us all up.

That remains to be seen and I’m still expecting a clear road map from Sonos by 31st Jan.

We had the device execution email. We had an ‘intention email’ (ok-ish). NOW we need the ‘THIS IS WHAT WE WILL DO AND WHEN’ email. I expect this by Friday this week to keep me listening and open to Sonos.

That said I have purchased Roon, installed it and am currently trying it.

And I have to say it ain’t half bad! And works a treat with all the Sonos devices and sounds …. pretty damn good!

Is a doddle to set up. The sound is very very good. The interface is new and I’m stumbling around it some … but with success. I’m sure there are down sides and things I do not get yet.

I’d urge you all to do the same. Just try it that it. Not saying I will storm away from Sonos … despite all this pain and misery I still like what it does. Not necessarily the organisation!

But if Sonos does not shape up then I want to know were the exits are. The Roon product appears an interesting ‘out’ with limited pain …. and maybe some real gain. Is an interesting exercise either way.

They do a free 14 day trial.

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Fobskid

Enthusiast I

Sonos has pre planned this months ago ... they knew their kit was/will be obsolete {legacy}as the competition {Google Amazon}has 24bt against there 16bt plus bigger memory. The old "legacy" kit is doomed. Even the newer kit will go "legacy over a short time .

So a conscious decision was made at the top ....

They decided to lose the existing customer as they cant be upgraded .Sonos knew there would be a customer storm BUT they were all considered as expendable. They also decided to try and cut out the middle man {shops stores and distributors} and shift what would become OLD equipment by offering a 30% discount off the Recommended Retail Price, RRP, IF you buy it direct from them and only them at full price . Make more money and get rid of OLD stock at the same time .

Genius !

BUT

What a massive storm on the internet ... so much anger ... could be the makings of a horror movie !
I wish i was a fly on the Sonos boardroom wall ... what a self inflicted total nightmare .
But seriously ...
It doesn't matter what Sonos does or says now ... the Sonos brand is now very toxic if not dead !
Even if they roll back everything to "as was" I for one will not be buying any more of their kit.
I have lost all trust in the product and the company. I realise if it goes bust nothing will work
but i consider my existing kit as worthless now anyway ... even if i bought new ... it will eventually go "Legacy"

SONOS = LEGACY = SCRAP . Lets call it what it really is !

This whole Sonos debacle has made me realise that any Internet connected hardware from any company is time limited.
Why spend top money on the best products { which Sonos was } when a cheaper alternative is available
When it goes "Legacy" i wont lose so much of my hard earned money if i buy cheaper ...

PS

I hope that if it does go bust all the hard working innocent staff get re-employed in any Sonos alternative company .

They are the ones who will really be paying the price for this crazy stupid mess ....

Yours

A Totally 100% angry pissed off disillusioned never ever again former Sonos advocate

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chris_h1957

Enthusiast I

Let's be clear, the reasoning of devices reaching technical limits is just a poor excuse.

Those devices being categorised as legacy need do nothing more than receive an audio stream.

It is ENTIRELY possible for this to be done by having another device in the mesh/network do the processing and pass this stream to a legacy device.

It could be achieved by either the addition of a separate single box in the mesh controlling this, or existing more powerful devices processing the audio for its legacy neighbour/s.

It is exactly the same principal as your wireless headphones with 2mb ram being able to play sound while your phone, ipad whatever does the work of receiving, transcodeing and transmitting the stream.

This move by sonos, coupled with it's new hardware having a "5 year support" line is nothing but a transition toward making sonos a disposable item like a smartphone.

A single smartphone in my pocket may be disposable every 5 years.

A 20 zone multi room music system with a £6000 ($8000) price tag, is NOT a 5 year disposable item for me.

They can even make it so that the speaker itself does this.

They say they do not have anough flash and ram, but right now every speaker runs the same firmware, meaning that a lot of code inside for example the Play 5 is not used for the play 5.

Alexa integration, airplay 2 integration and a whole lot of other stuff.

If they took the latest firmware, trimmed it down to the bare essentials needed for current features, they would probably have loads of space left.

What they need to do is get away from the “every speaker MUST have identical firmware” and begin “Legacy devices has basic firmware that the new firmware versions can talk to, and enable the functions that the legacy device can handle like multiroom streaming and MP3 playback”.

I would even think that this approach would give them enough space to be able to update streaming services, if they change the way their stream works….Atleast until such a time, that the actual processor can not keep up, and at that time they would be able to do as you suggest.

They could even make a bit of money if they made a “legacy / Modern” bridge, that facilitatet the connection between new and old. This bridge would contain “plenty of ram/rom/processing power”.

But i suspect they would rather “force” you to buy a lot of new speakers instead of one legacy to modern bridge.

This is exactly why I think it's a financial decision.

Instead of making separate firmware / a distributed computing model, they are encouraging customers to upgrade perfectly good hardware.

There aren't any other obvious motivators to go down that path. They knew they would take a PR hit for it. They must have gambled on making a profit in the long run.

They should redesign all new Sonos systems with a module holding the processor, memory and networking hardware. The module would be held in place with simple screws and could be upgraded at home when needed. The parts of the speakers that will take 50 years or more to fail are, sort off recycled. This would be good for the environment, good for our investment in the product and good for Sonos. No electronic company currently dose this, Sonos could be a world leader but would need the will to do it, just my thoughts on this mess...

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Kumar

@Fobskid - internet connected hardware is here to stay, not using it would be cutting your nose to spite your face.

Consider instead modular solutions. A smart internet connected front end module wire connected to a robust, quality speaker designed, built and provided service to last for decades, or to the extent its price justifies.

Technology has made the smart modules very cheap - or it is the strategy of Amazon, Google and like to make these loss leaders and therefore cheap enough to replace every couple of years, while the speaker they are wired to soldiers on for years and years.

At the same time, hold on to all legacy products - the existing ones will last years as above described robust speakers. Unless Sonos breaks one more pledge, its latest. But why worry about that till it happens?

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Kumar

@chris_h1957 : Exactly. Shout this from the roof tops, this is a brilliant idea.

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