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Ryan S
Retired Sonos Staff
Jan 22, 2020 3:20 PM UTC

End of Software Support - Clarifications

  • Dec 8, 2022 11:29 AM UTC
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End of Software Support - Clarifications

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

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4256 replies

Enthusiast II
Jan 26, 2020 5:32 PM UTC

Monday is the start of the working week 

Whoever manages this forum within the website needs to be putting something together to report back to the directors of Sonos.

If Sonos actually cared I'd expect some sort of further acknowledgement on this thread by close of play Monday 

It's not going to go away and could result in a massive fallout of loosing enthusiastic committed Sonos fans 

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Lyricist II
Jan 26, 2020 5:34 PM UTC

Can you please email that to Patrick Spence Sonos CEO?

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Lyricist II
Jan 26, 2020 5:35 PM UTC

 

Asking for  a 25 year lifetime for a bit of traditional hifi equipment is reasonable.  Asking for it from a multiroom wirelese audio system is stupidity and ignorance of the highest degree.

Ok, explain why. Produce one logical argument why a play 5 is going to lose the ability to be grouped with a play 1, especially given that Sonos control the protocol in use. 

Well, they will be able to if they stay on tbe same software. And we don't know for sure what the final outcome will be on legacy vs modern. But let's assume it won't be possible.

Sonos is an integrated system that has always relied on common software. Geouped speakers need to be able to perform identical tasks. Either speaker has to be able to act as 'group co-ordinator', running the show for the group.

Now, I find it entirely plausible that the more the system has to do, the more likely it is that a player with a paltry 32MB of memory cannot keep up. That seems far more likely than the cynical view on here that Sonos are making all this up and are just profiteering. You are free to believe otherwise.

 

Wow. Where to start. 
No belief or faith is required if you have an understanding of technology; different devices of different capability working together is the entire essence of computer networking. They don’t need to be running the same software, they just need to speak the same protocol. As one example, the protocol that moves email around the Internet, SMTP, was ratified in 1982. It’s been extended many times to add many capabilities to it but (and this is no exaggeration) you could take an SMTP mail client written in 1982 and it could send an email over today’s internet.
You want a less extreme example - Skype. You can send a real time audio/video stream between two a massive beefy Windows PC and a (comparatively tiny) android phone running completely different software and it works fine.

There’s even precedent for this within the current Sonos portfolio - you can group an airplay capable device with a non airplay device and they work together fine.

So let’s be very clear this is absolutely possible on a technical level. When Sonos implies it isn’t they. are. lying. What they mean is, for business/commercial reasons, they don’t want to facilitate that happening. They’re screwing us for profit. 

Sorry - Can you please email that to Patrick Spence Sonos CEO?

 

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Enthusiast II
Jan 26, 2020 5:36 PM UTC

 

There’s also Yamaha MusicCast, but it offers limited options and its future in the market seems questionable with no foothold. Then there’s Play-Fi, which looks promising but still fledgling with no strong partners. B&O looks really cool, but I can’t see the value at those prices.

Curious where you got market share data, as I’m about to go with MusicCast and Yamaha sells a lot more audio equipment than Denon. Please share your information because a Google search showed nothing. Thanks.

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Jan 26, 2020 5:41 PM UTC

So let’s be very clear this is absolutely possible on a technical level. When Sonos implies it isn’t they. are. lying. What they mean is, for business/commercial reasons, they don’t want to facilitate that happening. They’re screwing us for profit. 

Spot on…. It’s perfectly feasible to do it, they just don’t want to spend the money….

They’ve clearly decided that it’s cheaper to lose 5 or 10 (or more) thousand old customers than to redesign their system. Whether they’re right or not, only time will tell….

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Jan 26, 2020 5:41 PM UTC

It's good to know that there are so many people who understand multiroom audio better than its inventors and patent holders.  

Oh of course I forgot. Sonos are being totally dishonest about this. Or is it just that they are stupid.  I forget.

The reaction to my post is entirely what I  expected. 

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Enthusiast I
Jan 26, 2020 5:47 PM UTC

It's good to know that there are so many people who understand multiroom audio better than its inventors and patent holders.  

Oh of course I forgot. Sonos are being totally dishonest about this. Or is it just that they are stupid.  I forget.

The reaction to my post is entirely what I  expected. 

John

If you can provide a cogent reason why Sonos cannot support the current functionality of all components indefinitely, then that would be helpful. However, most people seem to believe that it is either an out and out money grab or it is a consequence of bloating systems with functions that few users want. 

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Enthusiast II
Jan 26, 2020 5:47 PM UTC

Even giving SONOS the benefit of the doubt and not assuming a cynical motive for this forced upgrade, the very design of their products was dreadful from an upgrade standpoint.  I bought a smart tv for over a $1,000 seven years ago which can’t be used for Netflix and could never be used with Amazon Prime, but a $35 FireStick solves the problem connected to an HDMI input.

Why in the world didn’t they (and still don’t) put in a USB input for just such an upgrade path in the future, rather than bricking a $650 AMP five years from now?

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Jan 26, 2020 5:52 PM UTC

Sonos is nothing without the loyal following of all of us … 

Well I’m so, so glad you all spoke up and voiced your concerns and that this appears to have had an impact, even if the full extent of that remains to be seen. I too had and still have concerns but until now have not voiced them - I guess that’s indicative of how little confidence I have that my concerns (and everyone else’s) will make a difference.

I bought into Sonos a long, long time ago, when they only had offices in the USA and over here in the UK no one had even heard of them; in fact most people either wasn’t aware that it was even possible to have a multi-room music system, or if they had it was just so, so expensive it was only a pipe dream. I even had to talk my local Hi-Fi dealer into setting up a trading account with Sonos so that I could order thousands of £ of gear to kit out my entire house in one go! This included the beautiful and functional Sonos Controller units, in fact several of them so I could control my system from various places within my house - much to the sheer astonishment and delight of my friends when they first saw it, before exclaiming “Wow! That’s incredible. I’ve absolutely must get one of those. What’s it called again? Sono …?"

Ive lost count of the number of those friends who bought into Sonos, or their friends, and friends of friends … (you get the point). I even forgave Sonos when they made my many Sonos Controllers obsolete, despite having bought a load of lithium batteries to replace the ones that kept wearing out, but what REALLY pissed me off was that I didn’t feel as though I’d had any choice, nor been given enough information or advance notice of that happening (we all lead busy lives right?)

I was also pissed off when, now having to rely on iPhones and iPads to replace my Sonos Controllers  that they suddenly made older versions of iOS incompatible too - sure they can’t keep bringing out newer versions of the Sonos App that support every version of iOS, but why couldn’t I just keep devices running old versions of the App too, why didn’t the system update come with a BIG WARNING that you were about to screw everything up, and yet again why wasn’t there better communication about this change in advance? Mmmm, it was beginning to look like this was the way Sonos went about things from now on - Now that they were a Global, very successful company with millions and millions of customers.

This irritation was further emphasised when I discovered that in fact it WAS ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE to keep an older, different version of a controller running in tandem with my updated system, contrary to what Sonos told everyone - it was called SonoPad, a third party controller app produced by a one man band for very little cost, and it still works to this day, despite the very many, many system updates since then! So why would Sonos claim this was not possible? If a little third party developer could do it, why couldn’t I just stick with the old controller app on some of my devices and still have everything else work on different versions?

Sadly, it’s the same old story time after time; bright new innovative company comes along with great ideas but needs customers to believe in them in order to grow and survive. Company gets what it wants and becomes so big and successful that, some where along the line, it forgets what and who made it that successful in the first place and how to go about running their business in the way that made it so attractive to all those customers who made it what it is today. Communication, or the lack of adequate, thoughtful and appropriately timed communication both with its customers, and often within their now behemoth sized organisation, is always at the root of this. 

Trust is hard to win, easy to keep, but so very, very difficult to get back when you break it. I do so hope that Sonos learns from this and goes on to be different to every other big company out there. Even giants like Apple haven’t managed this, but at least Sonos is nowhere near that big and so has a fighting chance of leading by example.
 

Fingers crossed (rant over)

 

Good summary, but you left out the one that alerted me to what Sonos was capable of. This is when Sonos demanded its’ customers register their products or they would not receive any further updates. I didn’t have to register my products when I first bought Sonos, and every time I updated my system I was given “the option” of registering. I chose not to register because I didn’t want to give Sonos my information. And then all of a sudden Sonos makes it mandatory to register products. I held out for as long as I could but it was getting to the point where I could no longer operate my system. Sonos was holding my complete system for ransom. So I was forced to register. But this alerted me to what Sonos was capable of and at that time I made up my mind not to purchase any further Sonos products.

 

So fortunately for me, I only have two Play 5’s and one Connect. I’m already using Apple Airplay instead of the Connect and I actually like it better. At least it will play my .m4a files, which Sonos will not. As for my Play 5’s, I’ll keep them for now. I really only use them as auxiliary speakers which I find good for being able to move around the house (use on the patio, etc.). In the not too distant future I will most likely replace them with something that is compatible with Airplay.

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Lyricist I
Jan 26, 2020 5:53 PM UTC

   I bought my 5th Connect from BestBuy less than 2 weeks ago. After checking with Sonos I found that it is not a "current" product and support will end in a few months. Of my 5 Connects only the one from about a year ago is. And of course my first gen Play 5 will not be supported. 

   I think like most Sonos owners I was a loud proponent of them. Yeah, a little pricey, yeah lots of alternatives (and outright copies) but the interface and the software was great. The support was great too. I loved showing people how slick Sonos was in the home. I talked more than one person into being Sonosfied.

   Sonos is like popcorn too. You can't stop with 1 (or 2, or 3...). Having moved homes recently one of the first things on the todo list is add more Zones. I was looking at a Beam and a Playbar. And of course more Connects. Maybe an Amp or two. 

   Right now I'm waiting to see if Sonos decides to keep supporting their base (the very loyal base that made them what they are) or if they'll chase some kind of quarter to quarter profit scheme that leaves us looking for a different solution. 

   Locked threads and brush off apologies are not making me hopeful.

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