Retired Sonos Staff

End of Software Support - Clarifications

Dec 8, 2022 11:29 AM UTC
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We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer.

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features.

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features.

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features.

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade.

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

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chickentender

not great. The wording of that clarification, whilst on the face of it seems to try and backtrack...they haven't stated specifically that the units will work fully for as long as you want them. Imagine spending 2k on a HiFi system only to have to replace it in 5 years because the manufacturer deliberately built it of parts that were non replaceable and would only last 5 years. really angry about this.

I was in the proces of acquiring a Sonos SUB for my Playbar + 2 Play 1 “sorround sound”

Come may, i wont even be ABLE to buy that one and incorporate it into my setup, because i will be in legacy mode to keep my Play 5 in the loop, and a new SUB will probably have new firmware out of the box, that can not be downgraded to run in legacy mode.

So they not only angered a lot of current costumers, making them not want to upgrade, they also prevented anyone with a legacy system from buying any new sonos products in the future because the new units can not be enrolled in a legacy system.

How’s that, for a poor “Lets trip ourselves up big time” decision

This isn’t accurate as to my understanding. One thing Sonos has stated is that it will be possible to add a newly purchased modern device to a legacy network. But quite honestly, financially, if you’re in legacy only, purchase Sonos sub from the used market instead.

The only time this would not be possible (in your instance particular) is if you’ve split the network into 1 for legacy devices and 1 for modern devices, your surround system is on legacy and you’re trying to add the sub to the modern system. (Clear as mud?)
Short answer - if you only run a legacy network to keep everything grouped and happy as it is today (which is what I’ll do), it will possible to add a new device to that environment, regardless of the firmware it ships with initially.

If I’ve missed some communication (entirely possible) that directly contradicts this please point to it.

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PhilRobbo

Lyricist III

not great. The wording of that clarification, whilst on the face of it seems to try and backtrack...they haven't stated specifically that the units will work fully for as long as you want them. Imagine spending 2k on a HiFi system only to have to replace it in 5 years because the manufacturer deliberately built it of parts that were non replaceable and would only last 5 years. really angry about this.

I was in the proces of acquiring a Sonos SUB for my Playbar + 2 Play 1 “sorround sound”

Come may, i wont even be ABLE to buy that one and incorporate it into my setup, because i will be in legacy mode to keep my Play 5 in the loop, and a new SUB will probably have new firmware out of the box, that can not be downgraded to run in legacy mode.

So they not only angered a lot of current costumers, making them not want to upgrade, they also prevented anyone with a legacy system from buying any new sonos products in the future because the new units can not be enrolled in a legacy system.

How’s that, for a poor “Lets trip ourselves up big time” decision

This isn’t accurate as to my understanding. One thing Sonos has stated is that it will be possible to add a newly purchased modern device to a legacy network. But quite honestly, financially, if you’re in legacy only, purchase Sonos sub from the used market instead.

The only time this would not be possible (in your instance particular) is if you’ve split the network into 1 for legacy devices and 1 for modern devices, your surround system is on legacy and you’re trying to add the sub to the modern system. (Clear as mud?)
Short answer - if you only run a legacy network to keep everything grouped and happy as it is today (which is what I’ll do), it will possible to add a new device to that environment, regardless of the firmware it ships with initially.

If I’ve missed some communication (entirely possible) that directly contradicts this please point to it.

Have they said you can add a New modern item to a legacy system? I had concluded from all the comms that you could not. If legacy and modern have to operate separately, as I think they are saying how would that work?

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macallan18

Enthusiast I

Wow what an absolute drop of the ball. From the opening email, to Ryan's bumbling technical replies.........then the cherry on the top Paddys heart felt letter!!! This cleared everything up IMO, I suggest everyone reads it properly..

Patrick Spence, you are dense!

You've killed Sonos!

dirty bast@#d

Lets calm down and take a minute to loom at this from Mr. Spence's point of view. I am going to assume that the issue was shareholders screaming for more revenue, and the fact that many of us who adopted early and often were actually problematic. My house is full of sonos. Many old play 5s, an old connect, an old connect amp, two 5.1 setups, two 2nd gen play 5s with a sub, etc. Unfortunately for sonos it is literally full. The old stuff works and sounds great and every room I want to fill with sound is going great. I have told all my friends to buy sonos, they all like it, but I am essentially a dead customer to them as I have nothing left to buy.

Someone at sonos probably did some market research looking for brand loyal music lovers with some disposable income to tap into, and they found we were already here. So how do you get us to buy more stuff? They tried a 30% bricking/upgrade, which was absurd for a few reasons. First, a play 5 trade in of 150 (30%) made no sense when I could easily sell it used for 250 or 200 at worst. Further, they would brick it and have it thrown in a landfill... a perfectly good, functional speaker worth 250 prior to the bricking!

It is safe to assume this initiative failed. So step two... lets just stop supporting the old units, break whole home functionality in a mixed environment, and see our intensely loyal customer based buy all new speakers! After backlash here and all over the internet, which I would say is literally exceeding 99% negative without hyperbole, we get a fake apology letter saying they are continuing down this road. And we are all still livid, selling our kit, switching vendors, etc.

Mr Spence is now rightfully in fear of his job. Stock is going down. He has a few options.

1) stay the course, lose more customers, try to buy time convincing the board that the post may app will be the next iphone in terms of revenue.

2) quietly modify the course to keep us happy - keep whole home audio working. Make a bridge that will allow legacy speakers to work or write the functionality into a new speaker with all that RAM - all you need is one new speaker to make the legacy work with the new.

3) he can reverse course, look weak and/or clueless to investors, maybe try to blame it on someone beneath him, but this would probably be the fastest way to lose his job and see a new CEO appointed. The new CEO comes in and offers a real apology and a change in direction, wins us all back with some 50% off discounts and company gift cards, and provides an assurance that such foolishness doesn't happen again.

I am hoping he goes with option 2 and learns from this. I suspect he is going with option 1 and is at least Machiavellian enough to avoid option 3. But if none of us are buying, new customers are scared off, and this stock hits single digits I think #3 will happen in a "mutual agreement".

Bookmark this post and check back in June.

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chickentender

This email (Update 2/22: A message from our CEO) changed my decision: my Sonos systems is no longer up for sale!

But on May 1st, if you don’t have a very efficient way to split my system so that all my Sonos speakers work together and you keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches, I’ll will get rid of them!

Based on the communication we’ve had so far I’m pretty sure the definition of splitting your system is that the legacy and the current will have absolutely no contact with each other.

The whole house audio facility will no longer exit.

That’s if you personally choose to split the system.. you might want to keep it whole legacy for the foreseeable future. You wil still get the fixes and security updates, just no additional new features or newer hardware. If you prefer to standstill you will lose nothing and still have the whole home audio multiroom experience.

Again, this is not my understanding. No new features, yes. No new hardware, no. Adding additional speakers and units, legacy/used or modern/new, to a legacy environment is reportedly still going to be possible. Any device added to a Sonosnet receives controller version information from the environment when you add it and is given that version during the setup process. A new device, as any other, will be given the firmware required to operate in the environment its being added to at the time of registration/setup. If anyone has direct info that contradicts this please link it. (seriously, if i’m wrong I want to know).

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kassey22000

Enthusiast II

You are right, it's not like buying a mobile phone. Three years ago I bought a Ssmsung Galaxy phone for around £650. I bought a Play:5 gen 2 for £499 around same time. The phone might last me another year, maybe 2. The Play:5 will be fully supported until 5 years after Sonos stop selling it. I would guess that will give me 10 years use, fully supported . Thank God that buying a Sonos is not like buying a phone.

Do you re buy all the lightbulbs in your house even when they’re still working? How about your plumbing? What about your car? Car manufacturers like money too, you know! You should throw away your car (No reselling it remember! It has to go in the landfill) and buy another one of the same capability to help them out!

Phones are not a fair comparison to the Sonos system. A mobile phone of 10 years ago does dramatically less than one of the present era, and what’s more, if you choose to stick with an old phone it doesn’t sabotage every other mobile device you own by preventing them updating. You can even call a new phone from an old one! Fancy that.

This constant conflating of Sonos devices with phones/laptops/ throw-away consumer electronics is ONLY HELPING Sonos make it’s case to us, the press, the industry, and the board. These were Marketed/Advertised/Promoted/Sold as Whole House Audio Systems at high-end retailers and online. You paid a premium price for the quality of the build, sound, and distributed music/audio! The name SONOS is a simple derivative of Sonic - SOUND! Most of us purchased these systems with the EXPECTATION that they would continue to send music/radio (SOUND) throughout our homes. We didn’t expect our investment in these to be prematurely junked because of a post-IPO money grab and some FALSE notion that you need to cram more power/memory to distribute music throughout your home/office/business.

PLEASE stop with this conflated narrative - it only helps Sonos move your Premium HiFi/AUDIO products into the landfill.

Let’s concentrate on real solutions that won’t split our whole home audio systems and doesn’t let Sonos split them because it suits their short-sighted quarterly ambitions. There’s a way, they just need to be brave enough to take it.

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Neal_8

Contributor I

I received my email from the CEO today.

Reading it was going so well with the first couple of paragraphs. I thought yeah great my old kit is still going to work, get bug fixes, not lose any functionality and then BANG he goes and confirms they are going to split old players and new players to operate as separate systems.

WTAF !

How on earth can he not know this is a huge mistake and what most people are pissed about.

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RichardK

Lyricist III

Like others have said, I see this as a wake up call to having software based technology in hardware that otherwise would not become obsolete. Amps and speakers, like most other hifi products, are something we buy and expect to last for decades.

Whilst I’ve loved the ease of Sonos and being able to pair different rooms and rearrange what kit I want where, it reminds me why in my last house I ran speaker and phono cables all over the place so I could I could listen to any stereo in any room. Sonos made me (happily) lazy.

Now I’ve had a few days to calm down after the initial announcement, my biggest annoyance is that this is the reality of all ‘smart’ / connected products that rely on cloud services. I’d be happy now to finish my Sonos journey with the devices I have, and still be able to control them from my PC/Phone/Tablet until the day the hardware dies. My main music source is my own NAS share, and could live without any online services. My future direction will back to traditional audio equipment and some nano pc’s.

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chickentender

not great. The wording of that clarification, whilst on the face of it seems to try and backtrack...they haven't stated specifically that the units will work fully for as long as you want them. Imagine spending 2k on a HiFi system only to have to replace it in 5 years because the manufacturer deliberately built it of parts that were non replaceable and would only last 5 years. really angry about this.

I was in the proces of acquiring a Sonos SUB for my Playbar + 2 Play 1 “sorround sound”

Come may, i wont even be ABLE to buy that one and incorporate it into my setup, because i will be in legacy mode to keep my Play 5 in the loop, and a new SUB will probably have new firmware out of the box, that can not be downgraded to run in legacy mode.

So they not only angered a lot of current costumers, making them not want to upgrade, they also prevented anyone with a legacy system from buying any new sonos products in the future because the new units can not be enrolled in a legacy system.

How’s that, for a poor “Lets trip ourselves up big time” decision

This isn’t accurate as to my understanding. One thing Sonos has stated is that it will be possible to add a newly purchased modern device to a legacy network. But quite honestly, financially, if you’re in legacy only, purchase Sonos sub from the used market instead.

The only time this would not be possible (in your instance particular) is if you’ve split the network into 1 for legacy devices and 1 for modern devices, your surround system is on legacy and you’re trying to add the sub to the modern system. (Clear as mud?)
Short answer - if you only run a legacy network to keep everything grouped and happy as it is today (which is what I’ll do), it will possible to add a new device to that environment, regardless of the firmware it ships with initially.

If I’ve missed some communication (entirely possible) that directly contradicts this please point to it.

Have they said you can add a New modern item to a legacy system? I had concluded from all the comms that you could not. If legacy and modern have to operate separately, as I think they are saying how would that work?

Any device being added to a network updates its firmware to match the environment its entering at that time. There should be no change to that. If you're adding a new/modern device to a legacy environment, this should still hold true. (I suspect you’ll be a choice as to which you’d like to do at that time.) That’s my understanding
@Ryan S , this would be one time, amidst the fray of this thread, it’d be nice for a quick pop-in.

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DK_Madsen

Enthusiast II

Any device being added to a network updates its firmware to match the environment its entering at that time. There should be no change to that. If you're adding a new/modern device to a legacy environment, this should still hold true. (I suspect you’ll be a choice as to which you’d like to do at that time.) That’s my understanding
@Ryan S , this would be one time, amidst the fray of this thread, it’d be nice for a quick pop-in.

But even if the firmware is the same, there has to be individual parts of the firmware to suit the different speakers and configuration.

So what will happen when Sonos releases a new product, will they update the old legacy firmware to support the new device, so that i can buy it and have it “downgrade” to “legacy” firmware ?

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ppiixx

Lyricist III

Yeah I don't think there is any chance you would be able to put new models launched after may into your legacy setup.

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