Retired Sonos Staff

End of Software Support - Clarifications

Dec 8, 2022 11:29 AM UTC
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We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer.

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features.

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features.

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features.

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade.

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

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robinm0

Enthusiast I

A sign of where Sonos was heading can be found in the Port, released in September 2019, which lacks:

an optical port; strangely also dropped by Apple for its latest iMacs;
support for 802.11ac & 5GHz (the manual specifically states a requirement for 802.11 b/g/n); also not present for future use in the One or the Move;
Gigabit ethernet support; again a lack of future proofing;
Internal PSU;
3.5mm jack.

These I view as cost choices, pure & simple. I wonder if the only real change to the internal electronics from the old Connect has been adding RAM.

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larsj

Enthusiast II

My email to Lifx support, subject “How long before your products become obsolete?”

Dear Lifx,

Since moving house recently I have tried your light bulbs and am very pleased with the product.

However, having used smart lighting and heating in my last house (installed in 2015), I have always had a nagging doubt about the business and support model. What is the expected lifespan of these products? For how long can we expect support for integration with Alexa and other controllers that might not even be available yet?

As you are probably aware, this question is now top of mind for many consumers following the decision of Sonos to stop supporting hardware that was manufactured as recently as 2015. Although they have softened their stance somewhat, it is still not certain if new products will remain compatible with old.

Already I have six Lifx light bulbs, costing a total of £280. This is a considerable investment, but in light of the Sonos announcement I am pausing all future connected devices purchases until I can be absolutely sure that everything I install will last at least 10 years, barring very occasional hardware failure, and that there will always be an upgrade path that retains compatibility.

Can you please publish clear, detailed guidance on how your system is designed to provide a future upgrade path. I would like this to include technical details of how new models can be made to work alongside old, but also a commitment to fair treatment of customers with timely communications:

How many years of free software updates will you provide? At £40-50/light bulb, I expect at least 5 years' updates free of charge, preferably 10.

If there's a cost of getting to years 10 or even 15, how is that cost to be met? Subscription, trade-in, or something else?

Will you give at least 1 year's notice?

A quick acknowledgement of my enquiry would be appreciated, however I expect in light of Sonos' impact on the industry it would be fair for Lifx to spend some weeks thinking this through carefully. Please keep me updated.

Best regards,

Lars.

I hope you don’t mind me sharing here. I’m writing a few emails like this today to other companies and suggest others do the same. For better or worse, Sonos are one of the first players in the connected devices market and there’s a real danger that if they get away with letting their customers down (and with just 4 months notice!) others will follow.

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jwinther

Lyricist III

A sign of where Sonos was heading can be found in the Port, released in September 2019, which lacks:

an optical port; strangely also dropped by Apple for its latest iMacs;
support for 802.11ac & 5GHz (the manual specifically states a requirement for 802.11 b/g/n); also not present for future use in the One or the Move;
Gigabit ethernet support; again a lack of future proofing;
Internal PSU;
3.5mm jack.

These I view as cost choices, pure & simple. I wonder if the only real change to the internal electronics from the old Connect has been adding RAM.

They also leave you with a product, that will have a natural end-of-life due to lack of features - sooner or later you will need to upgrade/trade in the product to one with better WiFi or other connections.

I guess that sonos have learned from the original mistake of making long lasting products, now being aware of how they can control their life span in a way that seems natural to their customers.

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“This is a chance now to come up with a system that doesn’t cause massive planetary damage in exchange for disposable stuff,” Proctor said. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3a8dpn/sonos-makes-it-clear-you-no-longer-own-the-things-you-buy)

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HelterSkelter

Enthusiast II

My email to Lifx support, subject “How long before your products become obsolete?”

Dear Lifx,

Since moving house recently I have tried your light bulbs and am very pleased with the product.

However, having used smart lighting and heating in my last house (installed in 2015), I have always had a nagging doubt about the business and support model. What is the expected lifespan of these products? For how long can we expect support for integration with Alexa and other controllers that might not even be available yet?

As you are probably aware, this question is now top of mind for many consumers following the decision of Sonos to stop supporting hardware that was manufactured as recently as 2015. Although they have softened their stance somewhat, it is still not certain if new products will remain compatible with old.

Already I have six Lifx light bulbs, costing a total of £280. This is a considerable investment, but in light of the Sonos announcement I am pausing all future connected devices purchases until I can be absolutely sure that everything I install will last at least 10 years, barring very occasional hardware failure, and that there will always be an upgrade path that retains compatibility.

Can you please publish clear, detailed guidance on how your system is designed to provide a future upgrade path. I would like this to include technical details of how new models can be made to work alongside old, but also a commitment to fair treatment of customers with timely communications:

How many years of free software updates will you provide? At £40-50/light bulb, I expect at least 5 years' updates free of charge, preferably 10.

If there's a cost of getting to years 10 or even 15, how is that cost to be met? Subscription, trade-in, or something else?

Will you give at least 1 year's notice?

A quick acknowledgement of my enquiry would be appreciated, however I expect in light of Sonos' impact on the industry it would be fair for Lifx to spend some weeks thinking this through carefully. Please keep me updated.

Best regards,

Lars.

I hope you don’t mind me sharing here. I’m writing a few emails like this today to other companies and suggest others do the same. For better or worse, Sonos are one of the first players in the connected devices market and there’s a real danger that if they get away with letting their customers down (and with just 4 months notice!) others will follow.

I think your concern is very valid.

I too think that the Sonos announcement has opened a Pandora’s box, regarding the lifetime of products that we once thought of as ‘lifetime’.

For certain, my spend on tech will be significantly reduced now, and a lot more thought before I purchase, especially on anything that is integrated into my home in any way.

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larsj

Enthusiast II

My email to Sonos CEO, Patrick Spence, subject “Why I didn't upgrade my Sonos components”:

£2,880 over 14 years ... So that’s around 2.34 pennies per hour on average (approx.), every day, for 14 years (starting 2006) of pure listening pleasure 24/7 and Sonos have made available their support facilities to you aswell during all those years. Seems you have done extremely well for your money-outlay in your case. I wouldn’t be grumbling too much if I had that much use from a good many things that I buy. Oh and there’s probably still lots of life left in at least seven of those devices that you have remaining.

It’s about £0.0000065 per second if you really want to make the figures look low, but who pays for their audio gear by the hour?

The point is, the upgrade they’re offering just isn’t worth it because the new hardware is hardly any better and it’s still not clear if it’ll work well with the old, if at all.

I’m all for a gradual upgrade, if it is actually worthy of the description, and if they give us more than 4 months’ notice.

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mrwarped

Lyricist III

Here’s another thought, given there are lots of eyes on this forum at the moment a few of them have to be bright spark techies or electronics wizards, unlike myself I hasten to add

what we need is one of these clever guys to whip the top off a play1, 3 or 5 and figure out how to retrofit a line in, aux Jack, possibly even a Bluetooth module. I love the sound quality of my Sonos kit and always have and I would personally pay to have my gear retro fitted and thus make it independent of any software shenanigans. I think people would queue up for this to be done.

come on one of you bright sparks get the soldering iron out and get yourself a profitable ready made business all in one go

The play: 5 has a line-in already and just to say the Play:1 and 3 devices are not part of the annoucement .. hope that assists.

Hi Ken,

yep my Play 5 does have a line in but it still needs the Sonos app to work, I’m talking about making each unit wholly independent of the software and app, a standalone powered speaker. Whilst the 1’s and 3’s are not the issue at the moment Mr Spence’s mealy mouthed reply sure made it clear they will be part of the issue at some point…...

Just to say (briefly) the line in, when set to Autoplay, will always work without the Sonos App and without WiFi for that matter. Some folk take them from Home to Work and run them off their mobile with the usual 3.5mm cable. Just so you know that option remains open to you. Not that I think you will ever need to go to such lengths, personally speaking.

I’m intrigued by your comment about not having to go to such lengths? Insider info or just a gut feeling? Thanks for the tip about Autoplay, is that something I will need to set from the app? Or will it work just by plugging in?

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ocratop

Lyricist I

My answer to Patrick's mail:

“Dear Patrick

Thank you for your message, but unfortunately you didn't listen to us properly.

It's very simple:

We bought Sonos to listen to music, that’s the point, not to "communicate" with Alexa or whoever - there are other devices for those who want to.
We bought Sonos so we could group the players and run them in partymode (!). That's one of the significant added values that Sonos brings us. And we were (!) willing to pay a reasonable price for it.
But you're destroying that core value by making it impossible to run all our devices in partymode. In other words, by disabling a key feature, you're destroying part of our assets.

You see, Patrick, the central demand from most Sonos owners who are potentially financially damaged by you is that it will continue to be possible to run new and old equipment together in one partymode.

This will certainly cost Sonos money and time, but it will be much less than the price Sonos will pay if you stick to your uninnovative policy.

So let Sonos' top developers create a sustainable solution that preserves the value of our previous investments, not destroys them! Then we will invest in you again.”

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jwinther

Lyricist III

I am a bit curious - Sonos had other crises in the past, for instance the one around requiring registration, as illustrated by the following cut-out from Amazon.de:

How did Sonos manage to stear through this crisis - and the previous round of retiring products? What arguments or acts ended up calming down their customers again?

As for the registration, I myself got annoyed but then just registered; as I remember it with a kind if reasoning for myself that I was registered with so many other vendors (and also already with this one), so it wouldn’t make much of a difference for me. But others were unhappy - did they leave, did they end up accepting the new terms, or what happened?

No replies to this?

I had a feeling, and this could perhaps confirm it, that nothing happened - Sonos didn’t need to do anything to repair the damage. Instead, the customers just moved on after the first few days of complaining as if nothing had happened. And now the change is part of everyone’s life with their Sonos products.

So, now I wonder if the CEO, seemingly an intelligent person, is calculating with this behavior? Maybe he simply expected a couple of days of uproar, followed by business as usual - apart from the change introduced. Afterall, it is the easiest way forward for everybody involved - customers will just start replacing old equipment and soon be ready for the next attack that will also quickly be forgotten.

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“This is a chance now to come up with a system that doesn’t cause massive planetary damage in exchange for disposable stuff,” Proctor said. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3a8dpn/sonos-makes-it-clear-you-no-longer-own-the-things-you-buy)

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crailite

Lyricist I

Cant help but think that Sonos has just created its own “Kodak” moment and we all know how it turned out for them.

Below is a copy of the email that I sent in reply to CEO Patrick Spence.

Thank you for your communication re the future of the products that I have purchased from you.

Unfortunately, your email does little to inspire confidence in the longevity of my current system of sonos products. Having invested over £1000 in your products over the past 4 to 5 years, my expectation was for your products to be fully supported for a period in excess of 10 years, and it now transpires this will not be the case.

You say “we are not forcing them into obsolescence” whilst this is patently what you are doing, and the more cynical amongst us might say that this is a ploy to drive sales of your new products. You further say you wil provide updates for “as long as possible”, a statement so blatantly indeterminate as to be meaningless.

I can only hope that those looking to purchase your new products take into consideration your current actions on your “legacy” products, re-consider their decision and opt for your competitors.

Your offer of 30% discount on replacement products in no way compensates for this loss of facility, nor does it inspire me to have confidence that any of your new products will have the life expectancy i would expect.

I can only say that your actions on this subject have been a PR disaster and a gift to your competitors. I further hope that your investors are currently reviewing the management and leadership of Sonos in the light of your decisions and actions.

I will NOT continue to be a customer of Sonos, and am considering raising a complaint via the UK trading standards authorities and/or action via the civil courts.

Amusingly the ancient scottish ballad of Sir Patrick Spence who led the scottish fleet to destruction in the 15th century, after ignoring all warnings, may prove a salutary lesson to you, or perhaps you view ill considered actions to be an inherited family trait.

O forty miles of Aberdeen,
'Tis fifty fathoms deep;
And there lies good Sir Patrick Spens,
With the Scots lords at his feet.

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andrew0