why sonos move 1st gen can’t be used for surround setup

Because the feature requires them to have ultra-sonic location capabilities, specifically in the hardware of the microphone array, that weren’t thought of at the time they were designed. 

Probably more than you wanted to know…

https://tech-blog.sonos.com/posts/the-magic-behind-portable-surrounds/

Sonos Positioning Technology is only available with Sonos Play and Move 2.

Thank kdownling,

This is very interesting reading, and the technology sounds (easy one) really great ! 

But nowhere is indicating that we have technical limitations to use these technologies on 1st gen Move… And that’s a shame because my Move works perfectly…

I  thought I mentioned the technical limitation. Sonos Positioning Technology (SPT) is the name of the technology sonos developed to enable the auto configuration of the portables used as surrounds. That technology doesn’t exist in any other portables but Play and Move 2. They send an ultra-sonic sound to a supported soundbar that detects those devices and their location and automatically configures them as surrounds. The Move doesn’t include the hardware needed to do that.

This is based on all the reading I’ve done on this technology. I have no first hand knowledge of sonos development. I understand your disappointment, though. I have a Move 1st gen too. Great speaker.

I asked ChatGPT to investigate Move2 being used as a surround and not the original Move. The gist of the findings were that the Move 2 and Era 100 share some of the same architecture that allows them to act as surrounds to which the original Move does not. However, one has to make a few inferences as Sonos has not publicly stated what makes the Move incapable of being used as surrounds. So take what you will from the information below.

I don’t think the fact that Move 2 & Era 100 might have hardware in common is meaningful. I mean, after all, the One is a perfectly good surround speaker, works with all sonos soundbars and is quite a bit older than the Move.

I do think that portable surrounds is all about auto-detection and configuration. If a portable isn’t capable of that, it probably wasn’t even considered.

Not sure. I could see the hardware being similar/the same could offer the same functionality, whereas the older electronics/hardware in the first Move wouldn’t offer the possibility. Essentially, I agree with your first post, ​@kdowling ;)

Not to antagonize but I do think that the Move 2 and Era 100 having similar tech (i.e. system integrations) should not be ruled out as a possibility that negates the original Move. That thinking also IMO suggests that Sonos when designing the Move2 wasn’t thinking forward to having the portables work as surrounds. Even though the dispersed official Sonos statement was that portables could not be used as surrounds. One might even go so far as to say misinformation was purposedly disseminated to thwart competition and/or at least stop questions in the community as to when portables used as surrounds would be available.

I recall back in the late 1970’s I purchased a Sony ES CD player that had optical output. It was before its time considering that Optical, TOSLINK or S/PDIF (Sony/Phillips Digital Interface) wasn’t widely incorporated into devices. However, Sony designed it into its ES series of components for futures. So, my point is that could not Sonos designed tech into the Move2 that would later be a blueprint for speakers such as the Era 100 and Play.

SPT from what I gather from the link wasn’t just developed with the release of the Play; but had been a project before that. However, for a speaker to utilize SPT basic architecture has to be in place. Also, I don’t think that the Beam was eliminated as a soundbar by accident in favor of the Beam (Gen 2), Beam Ultra, Arc, or Arc Ultra.

To close we all have our opinions on this. I’m just not convinced that there was no forethought/planning as to which portables could take advantage of the technology and how.

EDIT:

Optical, TOSLINK or S/PDIF are just different terms for the same technology.

I agree, and will go so far as to say there's no doubt they were developing this feature when they developed the Move 2.  At the very least, they had an idea for echo locating speakers in general, so they built in hardware capable of outputting and detecting near ultra-sonics.

I don’t disagree with any of the above. I probably didn’t make my point very well.

The One can be a surround and came out before the Move 1st gen.
The Move 1st gen, cannot be used as surround. Is it possible? We don’t know.
The Era 100 can be used as a surround.
The Move 2, sonos said originally, can not be a surround. Is it possible? We now know it is.
The Play, sonos said originally, can not be a surround.  Is it possible? We now know it is.

Two of those are not portable speakers and have nothing to do with this.

Two of those portable speakers can now be surrounds. Why those two? Because those are the two that can do SPT. That is how sonos wants portable surrounds to work. Auto-detect, configure, remove, bring back. This can be dealt with and be a great experience.

A portable speaker that can not be detected, can disappear, can’t re-connect as a surround automatically, wouldn’t be a great experience. The Move 1st gen would fall in this category. It doesn’t matter if it is technically capable of being a surround. It won’t be because it can’t be auto-detected. Doesn’t do SPT. Can’t auto-detect, configure, remove, bring back all automatically. Which is the only way sonos would consider a portable speaker as a surround.

All IMO, of course.

I may getting a bit too far into phrasing; but this is how I see the Move 2 and/or Play in relationship to SPT. IMHO the Move 2 doesn’t “DO” SPT; but it rather “Supports” SPT. I say that because the Move 2 along can’t designate itself to be left or right surround. A soundbar that “Supports” SPT has to be in the mix as well. Neither product on its own can make SPT a workable technology.

Taking that a step further the “Architecture” to make SPT a function has to be present in the specific products involved; which I don’t believe the original Move has. I may be wrong; but until someone comes down from Mount Sonos to correct me...that’s my opinion as of now. 😀

How about “Participates In” SPT. It that better? The Move 2 and Play are active participants. They send out the ultra-sonic sound that a supported soundbar detects. And the Move 1st gen doesn’t.

Whatever 😂...Have a good night and it’s past my bedtime 😂

Thanks all for the meaningful discussion. 
I do understand the SPT technology, and I do think this is great to have everything setup automatically. 
 

but before PST, we were able to have surround with wired speakers. With no PST, right ?

So it was possible to manually setup (haven’t done it, so I’m guessing here) the surround with a beam and 2 wired speakers. We could have done the same with “old” gen 1 Move speakers, and not only limit it to the new tech possibilities. 
 

that’s just it. 
 

but I do understand also the world we are living in, we have to enhance, to upgrade, to sell more and so buy more… maybe I’m just naive some times 😅 

I’m pretty sure the sole reason portable speakers were finally able to be used as surrounds is because of SPT.  Asking why older portables which are incapable of SPT can’t do the same is quite illogical, is it not?

Apples and bananas make for a tasty fruit salad. 😊

In a surround setup, the soundbar introduces a dedicated 5 GHz connection (direct routing) to rear speakers. Portable speakers likely lack the technological foundation for this.

You are surely right guys, maybe it’s only my disappointment speaking 😜

That is understandable.