Is Sonos Move a $400 paperweight? When did Sonos give up making products that work?

It’s certainly hard to make sense of those results!  Rebooting may indeed be needed, but I am still interested in SmartConnect.  Is it a coincidence that:

(i) SmartConnect is all about managing connections across two bands

(ii) The Move disappears when SmartConnect is turned on

(iii) The Move is the only device in your system that can connect to either band?

I tend to think it isn’t a coincidence, but I may be mistaken.  I still don’t buy your argument that because the Move has everything the Play:1 has and more, it should inevitably do at least as well as a Play:1.  The Move gives your router more options, and therefore more chances for it to get it wrong.  I am pretty sure the Move is connecting fine to your network.  The real question is: why can your Sonos controller not see it?

When you turned off SmartConnect “all devices (including Move) connected except for my sound bar and sub (which are the most reliable devices on my Sonos network)”.  At that point I would have tried just rebooting the Playbar and Sub to see if they appeared.

Further questions, if you don’t mind:

1. Do your router and APs all use the same SSID?
2. If you go into the Sonos app Settings, System, Network, Manage Networks, what does it show (maybe post a screenshot?)

If you would like another experiment to do, you could connect just one of your Sonos devices to your router by Ethernet (just move a Play:1 temporarily if there is no device in reach. Don’t wire the Sub).  Power all your Sonos off and on again.  If Move is not visible, disable SmartConnect again.

To explain my thinking behind the experiment i suggested (which I really think you should try!)…

By wiring a Sonos speaker to your router, you will push all Sonos data (except that for Move) onto SonosNet.  For everything except the Move, you will take anything related to your WiFi out of the equation.

Why ‘except the Move’?  Because the Move cannot connect to SonosNet, it must connect to your WiFi.  We have evidence that the Move will connect (and be visible in the app) if SmartConnect is disabled.

So it is possible that these steps will give you a stable setup.  At the very least, it takes some variables out of the equation and will give us useful information.

@John B ,

Thanks for the suggestions, your experiment did work. First, to address your questions:

Do your router and APs all use the same SSID?

No - just to clarify the network setup and create some standard nomenclature:

• The high level config is 1) Cable modem, wired directly to 2) ASUS RT86U (in basement, with it’s own wireless SSID (let’s call this SSID “TeganWifi”), wired directly to 3) ASUS RT-AC3200 (upstairs, with it’s own wireless SSID (let’s call this SSID “ASUS”).
• Each band (2.4 and 5 GHz) on each respective router has the same SSID, in other words I have not assigned different SSIDs to both the 2.4 and 5 GHz on the RT86U, nor the AC3200.
• Both routers have factory default settings (with the exception of debugging the Move issue).
• No Sonos devices are wired, all are wireless.
• The Sonos network configuration is only aware of SSID “ASUS”; I have never connected them to SSID “TeganWifi” (with the exception of debugging the Move issue). After any particular test I remove SSID “TeganWifi” from the Sonos network list such that it is only aware of SSID “TWO”.

If you go into the Sonos app Settings, System, Network, Manage Networks, what does it show (maybe post a screenshot?)

Just for the record, one known working configuration (with default router settings, i.e. SmartConnect enabled) was if I used SSID “TeganWifi” off the “primary AP/router” for all devices and connect to that with the Sonos app it works fine. A known working condition pre-Move was everything (less the Move) working on “ASUS” with all default router settings.

So I’ll leave this current configuration you provided up for now as I have had previous issues with the Sonos network behaving differently over the course of a day during the other tests. For the record the current configuration is:

• One Play1 wired to the AC3200.
• The (only) wireless network configured in the app is ASUS
• SmartConnect on both APs is disabled. (Not sure if I needed to disable it on the RT86U but I did anyways).
• Advanced Settings/Wireless/Professional tab: Enable IGMP Snooping on the RT86U (left over from @Xander P ‘s suggestion).

I still don’t buy your argument that because the Move has everything the Play:1 has and more, it should inevitably do at least as well as a Play:1

Keep in mind:

1. If the Move simply disabled it’s 5 GHz band (automatically because the Sonos app detected problems, as a diagnostic tool, manual intervention, etc.) and used the 2.4 GHz band it, Sonos could make it indistinguishable from a Play1. I am familiar enough with Broadcom, Qualcom and Intel wifi silicon to know that a 2.4/5GHz wifi chip is a proper superset of a 2.4 GHz chip. That’s a very simple baseline and fallback position.
2. I registered this brand new Move using my original ASUS network. Although it was convoluted and somewhat trial and error because the Move has issues, at some point the Move and the Sonos App communicated enough on the original network either directly and/or over the wifi network with the original router settings to register the device before breaking. This says the App and the the Move are capable of coordinating and providing move diagnostics during setup (or other times) instead of the user getting random results.
3. With respect to crossing APs and crossing frequency bands, my current devices on this very network have done this for years. My 5GHz Windows laptop, on AP #1, DISCOVERS AND CONNECTS TO my 2.4 GHz wireless printer on AP #2 all the time. If two devices from two different companies, one of them even dependent on Microsoft Windows can discover and connect on this network setup (with SmartConnect enabled) then I find it astonishing and disappointing that Sonos -- presumably Wifi experts -- fails in this very situation, hence the title of this thread.
4. In no case should a 5-year old Play1 with batteries and an invertor duct-taped to it making it portable outperform a $400 Move….period!

If this config is still stable into tomorrow I will try unwinding these changes one at a time, one day at a time starting with:

• Moving the wired Play1 back to wireless.
• Enabling SmartConnect on the RT86U
• Disabling the “IGMP Snooping”

If all that works then I suppose the conclusion is that the Sonos Move is incompatible with ASUS’ SmartConnect feature, my first and only  wifi device that I have with this issue (which includes an array of devices like connected garage door openers, pool cleaning robot, wireless printers, etc.) unless @Xander P or @Corry P from Sonos have other suggestions.

Thanks for your help and expertise.

Hi @ybl84f1 .  I am pleased my suggestion has given you a working solution, subject to your reasonable desire to leave it a while before being confident it is stable.

I honestly see no point in our continuing to argue over what should and should not work, so I shall pass on responding to your arguments regarding that, if you will excuse me.

Personally I can’t see much point in unwinding much of what you have changed.  By all means put the Play:1 back to wireless, but i have always operated in SonosNet mode and think there are advantages to doing so for anyone with more than a small Sonos system and a simple, access-point-free network.  (Admittedly this is ironic here, as the Move cannot connect to SonosNet.)  But that is your call - see what happens.  I suspect it will work when Play:1 goes back to wireless, but If it doesn’t, and you don’t need a speaker near the router, then a Sonos Boost would be the answer.  

Good luck.

Hi @ybl84f1 

Have you reset your Asus router yet? This is not something we think you need to do to get Sonos working, this is something Asus recommend to get anything working reliably. If your router has automatically updated its firmware, or if you have done it manually, it should be factory reset afterwards.

Sorry, I did not read all of the recs, but, simply send it back and get a new one.

@John B - unfortunately I must unwind this setup as none of my speakers reside where there is an ethernet jack. Where the wired Play1 is now is not in its position in the house. More importantly, this is all supposed to work wirelessly. I invested in Sonos products because they’re wireless products - I’m not supposed to work around their software and firmware issues by laying down home wiring.

@Corry P - yes starting with the last configuration change I am resetting both routers each time I make a change (which limits me to Sonos debugging early in the morning). Also I have factory-reset the APs per a previous suggestion.

I’m sure right now with the wired Play1 SonosNet is probably making all the previously discussed settings moot; by unwiring the Play1 I’m pretty much starting at ground zero in debugging the issues with the Move although I’ll force rebooting the APs after any config change just in case ASUS isn’t well-behaved after making changes.

So the configuration to this point (including a wired Play1 which is about to get unplugged) is:

BRIDGED/WIRED ASUS RT-AC3200

• All default settings.
• All unwired Sonos devices connected to this AP’s SSID

MAIN ASUS RT-AC86U, ALL DEFAULT SETTINGS PLUS

• SmartConnect disabled
• “IGMP Snooping” enabled (on both bands)
• IPTV tab/Enable Multicast Routing disabled
• No Sonos devices connected to this AP’s SSID

I’ll enable “Enable Multicast Routing” and unwire the Play1 which largely gets me back to @Xander P original config suggested with the exception of SmartConnect being disabled per John B.

FYI upon enabling the setting “Enable Multicast Routing” the menu introduces 2 new drop down boxes: Default IGMP Version (“V1;V2;V3 - I’ll leave it at “V3”) and Enable Fast Leave (I’ll leave it at “Disable”). Does Sonos have any guidance on these settings?

Let’s see if this initial config helps the Move function properly.

OK.  Sonos is indeed a wireless system but it was originally designed to use SonosNet, which requires a single Sonos component to be wired (to bridge between SonosNet and WiFi).  There are still many situations in which SonosNet is the best option, and I see this additional option as a strength of Sonos, not a weakness.

I strongly suspect that the configuration will survive the unwiring of the Play;1 and the return to fully WiFi.  If it doesn’t, then the Sonos Boost is designed for just such a scenario, as I have already said.

Hi @ybl84f1 

I think having all Sonos products and your controllers on a single AP will help matters. Let’s see.

@Xander P , @Corry P , @John B ,

Well it’s been a while but I wanted to let you all know that the Move is working as it should and what the final conclusions are.

First, unfortunately John I need to unwind what I did because the wired Play1 is not normally in a position where it can be wired; none of the devices are. And also wireless placement is one of the reasons I invested in Sonos to begin with and there’s no reason it shouldn’t work.

So after a lot of trial and error I found that Xander’s guidance on these 2 settings enables it to work correctly:

• Multicast Routing (IGMP Proxy) and Efficient Multicast Forwarding (IGMP Snooping.)
• Enable IGMP Snooping.

What additionally is required however, at least in my configuration, is a reboot of both routers as well as the Sonos devices. Regarding the routers it’s not enough just to change the settings without rebooting, which is what I was doing in the beginning. Also I don’t know if you could simply reboot one of the routers or just one of the Sonos devices - it may be possible but it’s too time consuming to figure out and not really necessary.

Note SmartConnect on both APs is on and has no effect on the outcome.

So again the Move is now behaving exactly as it should and besides the very poor OOB experience and the time-consuming debugging effort I’m very pleased with it.

After all this here is some feedback to Sonos regarding the Move:

• Equip your 1-800 support team with this debug information, you’ll save yourself money and reduce customer frustration, churn and product return. I started with phone support, and even after sending diagnostic information from the app several times over the course of more than an hour their suggestions addressing this issue were completely irrelevant or useless.
• Consider having a router-specific self-help section; it would have been much easier for me and less expensive for Sonos to simply have an “ASUS” page of FAQs, BKMs and settings to reference, especially since at the end of the day it was simply 2 settings that needed toggling.
• Diagnostics: There’s absolutely no reason the Sonos app could not have automatically diagnosed this and provided more guidance for correcting it instead of leaving it to the consumer. At first bootup of the Move the Sonos app could communicate at least enough with the Move to register it, then failed to see it at all after registration. So somehow they were able to connect initially which means they could coordinate to help debug a network issue.
• Also, as noted many times above, in cases where the Move fails in a multi-band network the Move could fall back to 2.4Ghz to operate. This may not be ideal but it is a solution that could be presented to the user as an option or to help debug in a diagnostics mode. Again a wireless Play1 should not outperform a brand-new Move that is designed to be portable.

Thanks to those that provided helpful and meaningful guidance. If there’s any final questions about the network setup or something you would like me to try let me know otherwise I think we can close out this thread.

Cheers.