Sonos and HiFi/Audiophile systems

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
May 1, 2021
18 replies
6819 views

Since one keeps hearing over and over about Sonos not being a HiFi system - leave alone a audiophile one, whatever that means - I thought of starting a conversation on the subject. Perhaps there will no takers…but most of us are locked down, so let’s see:-).

To start the ball rolling, for those that do NOT see the best of Sonos - a 5 pair + Sub - to be worthy of the HiFi label, can we hear from you specifying the cheapest system that you have found to be HiFi, playing in the same room and using the same source music files used for ruling out Sonos? It would help if you named the speakers, and also amp used if the speakers are passive ones, and its cost. And then say, what is it that, in your opinion, confers the HiFi label on that system.

Note that there is no reason for something to be considered cheap just in comparison to Sonos price points; it should just be the cheapest System you know that does HiFi. Never mind if it costs less, same or more than the 5 pair+ Sub.

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dan8558

Prominent Collaborator I

This discussion has gotten a lot more traction since I discovered it yesterday. I agree with the posters who commented that the lack of a definition for audiophile or hifi is a problem, Nevertheless, I think that Sonos speakers are much better than is commonly assumed. A couple years ago I compared my 1 pair plus sub to a pair of Def Tech tower speakers + SVS subwoofer. This wasn’t a scientific test by any means. I didn’t match levels and it was blind only to the extent that I kept forgetting which pair of speakers I had selected to play. I set the Play 1s on top of the tower speakers and grouped the two sets together in the Sonos app. Then I repeatedly turned 1 volume slider up and the other all the way down to 0. After switching back and forth for awhile, I decided that I was as happy with the Play 1s as I was with the Def Techs.

I still have passive speakers around, as I mentioned in my earlier post because I use them for TV audio in addition to music. By the way, Kumar mentioned that using a Connect to feed the TV audio into the Sonos ecosystem to then be played by Play 1s may work well, but I’m skeptical. I used to use my ZP-120 for TV audio and found that the audio delay was really annoying for my Roku when watching Netflix or Sling. HBO, on the other hand, had no discernible audio delay.

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dan8558

Prominent Collaborator I

Kumar wrote:
I see no reason for this on the other hand; I have a KEF Q100 pair, and there isn't much to choose between it and a play 1 pair. Comparing the KEF to a 1 pair + Sub isn't a fair comparison.

My impression was that this had to do with how well the 1 pair integrates with the Sonos Sub. I don’t think it integrated so well with the passive speakers as I had to guess at the crossover setting and set the Sub level by ear.

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KumarAuthor

By the way, Kumar mentioned that using a Connect to feed the TV audio into the Sonos ecosystem to then be played by Play 1s may work well, but I’m skeptical. I used to use my ZP-120 for TV audio and found that the audio delay was really annoying for my Roku when watching Netflix or Sling. HBO, on the other hand, had no discernible audio delay.

Dan, I use the TV solution with Fire TV stick as the source. I get no noticeable lip sync issue even if I watch for it with Netflix, Disney, Amazon Prime Video, or YouTube. For YouTube, I usually have music videos on via another TV with sound piped around the open plan apartment core via a wired to TV Connect, grouped with other Sonos zones. Vocals and things like close up of guitar play exhibit no delay that can be noticed. I need to have all Sonos units ethernet wired because the Connect is set to minimum buffer/delay to get lip sync, but that is a different issue.

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KumarAuthor

Kumar wrote:

I see no reason for this on the other hand; I have a KEF Q100 pair, and there isn't much to choose between it and a play 1 pair. Comparing the KEF to a 1 pair + Sub isn't a fair comparison.

My impression was that this had to do with how well the 1 pair integrates with the Sonos Sub. I don’t think it integrated so well with the passive speakers as I had to guess at the crossover setting and set the Sub level by ear.

What I meant was that comparing a KEF pair without Sub to 1 pair + Sub isn't being fair to the KEF.

But yes, I agree that Sonos Sub integrates better with Sonos Play units than with my Connect Amp.

I am also not surprised by what you found about 1 pair + Sub. I did my thing a few years ago placing a 1 pair next to large standmounts - Harbeth C7 - driven by Quad amplification. I was astonished to see by how little the Harbeths shaded the play 1 pair. Yes, bass was fuller/richer with the Harbeths. But once I got a Sonos Sub in, that difference disappeared. It did not take me long thereafter to sell the Harbeth+Quad kit back in 2014, and I have not regretted that for a moment.

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KumarAuthor

It’s awesome for convenience, ease of use and general overall slickness.

For the record and for what it is worth, with reference to the quoted: Since I have found other solutions in the last year or so that offer more of the above quoted for less, I no longer recommend Sonos speakers to friends. But I have not changed my views on Sonos sound quality, and I will continue to use my 2011-2014 purchased Sonos kit on S1 till the well built Sonos hardware - that still works and sounds like it did when new - dies, but my future plans will not include Sonos.

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KumarAuthor

Then there is the question of Sonos kit that does not have speakers - Amp and Port.

My Connect Amp still hews to the trait of every modern day solid state amp of being a straight wire with gain - all it does is amplify the signal without adding anything audible to or taking away anything audible from it. By all accounts, so does the Sonos Amp. And no one that claims otherwise, or claims that a HiFi or audiophile amp is superior has claimed to arrive at this conclusion after controlled blind testing.

The Connect/Port has more oddball claims attached to it, starting with the simple ones as made for the Amp above. But there is also a set of users that claim to have moved it to HiFi/Audiophile leagues by modifying it. It is doubtful that anything was accomplished by these mods except voiding of warranty. Certainly there are no supporting reports of controlled blind testing for this as well.

There is another funny aspect about the Connect/Port. Many think it to be wildly overpriced. Audiophiles on the other hand think that it is too cheap to be any good.

My experience since 2011 with two Connect Amps and one Connect suggests that both would not have been out of place based on their sound quality in any Hifi/Audiophile set up I used in a decade in the hobby. And since audiophile set ups tend to be evaluated on price, I will add that those that I refer to cost about USD 10000. Today I cringe to list out all that these set ups included. But the Sonos units would have LOOKED out of place - and therein lies the problem with them for most audiophiles.

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dan8558

Prominent Collaborator I

Kumar wrote:
What I meant was that comparing a KEF pair without Sub to 1 pair + Sub isn't being fair to the KEF.

I did bond the Sonos sub to the Connect amp (and later Amp) that was driving the KEFs. I still found that the sound from the Play 1s was preferable. Of course, the KEF Q150s can sometimes be purchased for only US $300 per pair, which is even less than a pair of One SLs, although you also need the Amp.

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KumarAuthor

Of course, the KEF Q150s can sometimes be purchased for only US $300 per pair, which is even less than a pair of One SLs, although you also need the Amp.

You also need speaker cables so things usually also are more cluttered. So if Sonos sounds better, it is a no brainer.

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