Why does Sonos force us to update the software?

JGatie’s initial response was based on his complete misunderstanding of my question. I didn’t ask how to prevent updates. I asked why service interruptions appeared to be a way to force me to update. He was congratulated by someone for this, and then you marked the thread as answered. 

I call him on this and I don’t even get an “oops” out of him. Instead, JGatie’s last two answers boil down to “you’re wrong it can’t happen that way” and “it didn’t happen to my brother so you’re wrong”. Yet remarkably, every time there’s a sound drop out, it is always solved by checking controllers for updates. Applying the updates brings the sound back right away. Occasionally, but rarely, its a device update. Applying that brings the sound back, right away. So to me, it appears that pending updates cause my system to drop sound. 

Finally, the tv isn’t the issue, please note above where I said that I dealt with the display and AppleTV and other devices first. Everything else outside this Arc has been rebooted multiple times while I tried to figure out the Arc dropout the first time. Since then I haven’t had to restart anything including Sonos devices - unless there was a Sonos firmware update - all I needed to do was update one or more controllers.  But just to be certain the next time this happens I’ll restart the tv and report back to you. 

1. And as I’ve said numerous times, most of the pending updates are controller software updates. Firmware updates are rare, but they also solve the problem. What does “bouncing the system mean”?
2. I don’t have automatic updates turned on. And on numerous occasions we've found one single controller out of our many, that had an update pending, but none of the others. 
3. My wife uses the TunedIn radio portion of the Sonos controller to play a single local FM station. The Arc drops out with that as well. We’ve also run into an unrelated problem with TunedIn where it will not work unless we update the controller, but the tv is still passing sound to the Arc. That kind of deflates the whole “your TV is causing this” scenario so I’m glad you brought this point up. I have no use for the rest of the streaming stuff so I can’t comment on that. 

So, if I understand you right, Sonos actively forces you (or all users) to update your system by using the controller to cause drop outs on the system? How? Why? And why has nobody noticed this before?

Thats the summary of it. There’s only really three pieces to this chain: Sonos, Arc, and the controller(s). 

How? I don’t know. But if I had to guess, I would say its a simple flag that is set by an inbound update notification, and that flag shuts off the sound. Updating resets the flag. But I’m not a coder so this is just a guess. 

Why? Again I’m just guessing, but I’d say its to frustrate the user into turning on automatic updates. I did some reading on Sonos updates when I got into this Arc and I found out they did some really heavy-handed stuff at one point in the past to force updates. I don’t exactly recall what it was but it was either a firmware update that broke the controllers to force people into a newer version of the controller that they didn’t like, or vice versa. I’ve already spent too much time on this topic today or I’d go look into it for you. 

Why has nobody noticed this before?  I’ve spent no small amount of time reading threads here about software issues, and one of the most common pieces of advice is “you should have auto updates turned on”. So perhaps nearly everyone here has auto-updates turned on, and since my problem relates to unperformed updates, those customers don’t run into a forced controller update issue? Once again, I’m just guessing, but that seems like the simplest answer. 

Dear @Forstal 

Please just submit a Diagnostics report, contact Sonos support, and then let us know what they say. 
 

Many thanks in anticipation. 

Where would this flag reside?  On your speakers on the controller?  If you turn off your phones, or remove them from the WiFi, does the sound resume?  Do you think the Arc maintains a listen of all the controlling apps in your system?

I can’t guess as to what incident your talking about.  However, your controllers and firmware must be on the same version.  It’s always been that way.  You may be referring to a case when a guess or other family member updated the firmware for a system, when the Sonos owner did not want it updated, forcing them to update the controler app on the owner’s phone.

There is a thread regarding the Sonos Arc/Sub base issues where numerous people have stated they are not updating their software till a fix is provided.  None of them are complaining about drop out issues.

Perhaps because (a) inactive controllers are ‘unsubscribed’ (disconnected) from the players, and in any case (b) an out-of-date controller has no effect on the players, other than being unable to control them fully?

“Where would this flag reside?  On your speakers on the controller?”  Since the Arc is the one shutting off, and its the root of the whole system, I would say the flag is set on the Arc. Thats just a guess. I’m not a coder, and I certainly don’t know the ins/outs of the Sonos system. 

“If you turn off your phones, or remove them from the WiFi, does the sound resume?”   Thats a good question. I’ll have to try that next time the drop occurs. I anticipate that there’d be no change, assuming this is a flag issue and it resides on the Arc. That flag would have to be reset in order for the sound to proceed, and turning off the very thing that can reset the flag doesn’t seem like it would cause a reset. Again, I’m not a coder, this is just a guess.  

“Do you think the Arc maintains a listen of all the controlling apps in your system?”  Perhaps. Each controller keeps a list of what speakers are on the Sonos network, so its not that hard to believe that a copy of that list includes controlling apps as well, and that copy resides on the Arc. But thats assuming the controllers are actually the ones causing the service drop. If its indeed a flag, as I suspect, then it doesn’t matter what controllers are on what list, anywhere at all. All that matters is what state the flag shows. 

“I can’t guess as to what incident your talking about.  However, your controllers and firmware must be on the same version.  It’s always been that way.  You may be referring to a case when a guess or other family member updated the firmware for a system, when the Sonos owner did not want it updated, forcing them to update the controler app on the owner’s phone.”      No thats not it. Let me see if I remember this correctly. This was around the time of the iOS controller version 7 and 8. There was a huge mess over some functionality that was deleted or modified. I didn’t do the update myself, just because the system was working and there was no need for any update. Then one day I recall opening my iPhone controller to use the dialog enhancement and I received a message that my Sonos needed a firmware update. I was able to clear that but it came up every time I used the app. Then a few days later the app stopped working. I switched over to using my iMac, and it worked for a while. Eventually that controller stopped working. I gave up on controllers and just used the Playbar until one day nothing came out and I was forced to update. 

“There is a thread regarding the Sonos Arc/Sub base issues where numerous people have stated they are not updating their software till a fix is provided.  None of them are complaining about drop out issues.”

Yet.

These aren’t inactive. We leave these devices around the house, and they're convenient to use depending on our activities. I don’t personally use Arc for music because I don’t think it sounds that great for most music, but my wife uses it for listening to a classical station, and that does sound good.  When it works. 

Or did you mean that these are considered “inactive” simply because the software is out of date? We’ve actively used some controllers that were months out of date. I think most of them went back to the S2 release, actually. I don’t think I did a single update on anything - controller or device - until this drop problem started at the beginning of the summer. 

In fairness to you, I went looking for that thread and couldn’t find it. But I did find a guy who posted up about his speakers changing to S2 “overnight”. At least one other person in that thread said they experienced the same thing. Its definitely not the same thing as what I see happening here, but at least it should open people up to the possibility things can change in a Sonos system without customer permission or involvement.