Truplay Tuning Amp-Powered Rear Surrounds

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/trueplay-compatible-devices-and-sonos-products

Thanks for the quick reply, Bruce!

Unfortunately, the critical sentence on that page is ambiguous:

"Amp also supports Trueplay when powering Sonos rear channels in a home theater setup."

That could be interpreted as either "powering 3rd party rear channels in the Sonos system" or "powering Sonos-made speakers used as rear channels"

Hence my original question, to which I couldn't find a definitive answer by searching online.

@aburst42

If you like to get an official answer, one of the mods over here would have to confirm it. But as far as I know if the Sonos amp fires any 3rd party speaker as rearspeakers in a ht setup they are trueplay supported because trueplay setup there is done for the whole room over the ht master device like the Arc, Beam etc. 

A special case it would be, if the master device also is a Sonos amp. Therefore this one must be connected to compatible Sonance speakers as front speakers to get the ht setup trueplay ready. 

I've also read that Trueplay is ony supported on an Amp when using Sonos by Sonance in wall's or in ceiling speakers. This has no meaning when using the Amp for surround duty?

Yes, that’s right… the trueplay limitation of compatible Sonance speakers only exists for a Sonos amp in a single device setup or if it’s the master device in a surround setup. 

Thanks for the update, everyone!

Let me try to get an official answer from a mod, too. This seems to have worked in other posts, so here goes:

Hey Sonos,

Can third party bookshelf speakers (passive Denons in my case), connected to a Sonos Amp and identified as rear surrounds, be TruePlay-tuned as part of a home theater setup, along with an Arc and a gen3 Sub?

Thank you!

Hi @aburst42 

Trueplay when using a Sonos Amp will only work with Sonos In-wall or In-ceiling speakers that are designed by Sonos (to Sonos specifications) and built by Sonance.

Know that Sonance makes their own line of In-ceiling and In-wail speakers that do not contain any Sonos proprietary technology. In that respect they are a 3rd party speaker like any other speaker not sold by Sonos and consequently are not Trueplay compatible.

The Sonos Amp will power any 3rd party speaker meeting the Ohm requirement shown here and can be used as surrounds. Again...they are not Trueplay compatible.

@AjTrek1 , that was perfectly clear. Thank you for your response. Looks like the Amp+3P rear surrounds approach is out. Now I have to figure whether I go with One SLs or whether the Era 300s are worth the upgrade in my asymmetrical room (couch backs into a corner) :-)

Thanks again!

@aburst42 

Glad you found my explanation to your liking 😊

Moving on…unless you already own a pair of One SL’s they are discontinued and have been replaced by the Sonos Era 100.

If you are interested in a complete FULL immersive experience with Dolby Atmos content (to complement the Arc) then go with Era 300’s as surrounds. 

If you can upload a floor plan showing the position of your seating we may be able to offer suggestions.

Sorry for the crude drawings :-)
 

Room is about 19.5ft x 13.5ft with 9ft ceilings sloping slightly up to 10ft in the middle.

Couch is low-slung, slightly irregular shape. The back is as pictured and can support speakers (flat surface at the top of the back).

TV/ARC distance to seated position (reclined, middle of the couch, head on backrest) is about 12.5ft.

TV (blue) is 75” diagonal, 68” horizontal, mounted about 22” from floor. For proper separation, I’ll be mounting the ARC (maroon, filled) about 14” from the ground.

I plan to add the rear surrounds in the position indicated by the white-filled maroon outlines, either sitting on the couch or elevated slightly on wall mounted supports.

I’m concerned about the non-flat ceilings and the corner vs. open space asymmetry of the rear surrounds (difficult for the Era 300s to match their bounced sounds), so I’m wondering if I should:

1. Let the ARC drive the height channels and just go with good directional rear surrounds -  ERA 100s or One SLs if I can find them. I can always upgrade to the ERA 300s later.
2. Or splurge on ERA 300s in the back (quite a price diff right now) in an attempt to get great ATMOS, even with the ERAs’ center channels disabled.

Happy to provide other information if it helps, and thanks again for the enthusiastic help!

Sonos is considering the front driver to be enabled for Stereo sources, it isn’t likely to sound as good as disabled but it seems folks want it on anyway.

Not sure how that possible option relates to Atmos sources though?

 Hi

@aburst42

Thanks for the diagram...very helpful! 

I suggest raising the Arc to the minimum distance of 4 inches  below the TV as indicated in the Arc Product Guide here. You want to increase the bounce angle to the floor as much as possible while directing more audio to the listener. Be sure to use the Sonos wall mount for the Arc shown here; as it provides the proper thickness to allow the Arc to detect that it is wall mounted.

Using Era 300’s will require that the right speaker (seated position facing TV) be moved away from the wall. Sonos recommends 8 inches. You could probably “fudge” a bit and get away with 5-6 inches without compromising its sound affect for Dolby Atmos. See Era Product guide here.

Era 100’s with dual angled tweeters (left/right) per speaker are more forgiving (than Era 300’s); but you’ll lose full immersion for Dolby Atmos affects in the rear. However the Arc will function as expected for Dolby Atmos content. Also, Era 100’s  will compliment the Arc better than a pair of One SL’s.

Using Trueplay will help equalize the sound to your room regardless of the angled ceiling. It’s not a silver bullet but works in most cases.

On a personal note...the Arc is an impressive sound bar. However, it lacks low-end IMO (and most will agree). If I had to choose between adding a sub or surrounds (based upon budget) I’d opt for the sub. Adding a sub relieves the Arc of low-end duties and allows it to better focus on mids, highs and directional channels. Dialogue is greatly improved as well.

I hope what I've provided is useful and helps you make an informed decision. BTW, be sure to check your private messages 😉.

@AjTrek1, all of that is super-helpful!

A pair of ERA 100s it is!

The 300, even at 5” from the wall, will still encroach into the head space of the secondary listener. Not to mention the vast price difference from the 100 (almost double).

On the other hand, “downgrading” to the Refurb (and discontinued) One SLs doesn’t seem to justify the corresponding discount.

Excellent point on the Sub, it’s in the plans :) Speaking of which - it so happens that the couch is hollow underneath (it’s more of a foam-padded shell than anything else). That allows me to experiment with putting the Sub on its side, literally under the main viewing position. Putting it on its side is supported (per the instructions in the faq here), but I’m wondering if putting it “inside” the couch, as it were, is likely to damage it due to the confined space, heat dissipation, or anything I might be missing. Or, put differently, is it safe to experiment with it in such a location?

Acoustically the couch is essentially transparent at the SUB’s operating frequencies. I don’t expect any major heat issues, but you’ll need to experiment with that.

@AjTrek1

Good Morning… 

So you think a Sonos amp for use with rearspeakers connected to none of these Sonance models won’t be included in a trueplay setup?

As I understand the Sonos article @Airgetlam linked above…

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/trueplay-compatible-devices-and-sonos-products

…and also what I got as information from Sonos support, in a home theater setup all devices are included in trueplay optimization, if the master device is ready for trueplay. 
For me this sounds logical, because the Connect Amp is also included there in rear mode and the Connect Amp isn’t ready for this special setup with Sonance speakers. 
So as a result the Connect Amp and Sonos Amp in rear mode connected to any passive speakers should be included in the trueplay setting by the master device.