Grand Maestro

investigating the Sub and Surround connection

23 replies
341 views

I'm going to try to figure out the Sonos connections to surrounds.

I'm starting with my main Rooms powered up and updated. I also have a Home Theater Room that has been powered down for a month or so which is what I'll be working with first. It has a Beam gen 1, Sub gen 2 and two One SLs.

Initially the Room and speakers aren't visible in the Android app, main Room lists or the About page, they have been powered down long enough to be removed.

Powering up just the surrounds, they are still not visible in any app lists, but if I do an update check I am told one is needed. I do not have the 2.4 gHz Sonosnet enabled here and the Beam is powered down so they must be connecting to my home Wi-Fi on my 5 gHz band in order for the app to see the update status. The AP access log confirms this connection and shows it became active soon after I powered the surrounds up. The log also shows they are communicating using the link.

Running the update, both One SLs go through the update/reboot LED patterns. At the end of the process the AP logs show the names are no longer the DHCP assigned/reserved ones, instead both show as "Sonos ZP" but still using the DHCP reserved addresses. The MAC addresses appear to be correct in both DHCP and AP logs.

The One SLs still do not appear anywhere in the app.

Power cycling the One SLs causes the AP logs to return the DHCP assigned names. They still do not appear in the app.

Rechecking the update status shows all are updated.

Next, powering up the Beam and Sub. The AP logs show the surrounds disappearing soon after the Beam appeared. The Sub briefly appeared in the AP logs but did not pass any data, I did not see if it used the default name originally but I do show two sessions, one before and the other after the update.

So two interesting things here, the non-HT connection for updates and the DHCP/DNS oddness on update.

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

Show previous replies

Stanley_4Author

Grand Maestro

No guest SSID.

No problem connecting.

This is not anything recent, I originally noticed the connection being shown many months ago but didn't investigate until another topic nudged me to look into it.

C

craigski

Local Superstar

The surrounds don't seem to be waiting for anything, they appear to be fully booted and operational, otherwise how would they first tell the app they need an update when queried and then when told to, download the update?

Once the App sees the Beam the lists return to normal.

I think most of the oddness is in the app, not the firmware.

I think this is normal, ‘by design’. The Sonos App is showing ‘Rooms’ your UniFi? is showing ‘Devices’.

It is not possible to interact with a bonded Sub/Surround using the Sonos App if the Sounbar is not available, ie you can’t stream to a Surround or Sub, or change volume etc. Therefore why would it show up in App?

I recall when a speaker boots, it will obtain a DHCP IP address from the Local Wi-Fi (or Ethernet) adapter, before it bonds. Once its bonds (bridge) to the Soundbar, Unifi will not show the original device, as its no longer active. It will show probably if you enable ‘offline’ devices in the devices view on your UniFi Network App.

MoPac

Headliner III

Would be nice if the app could somehow indicate this condition. It should list the surrounds as available for update and waiting for the soundbar 5GHz.

C

craigski

Local Superstar

The condition is the Soundbar is powered down, that would be obvious when the TV is turned on, and no sound comes from the Soundbar?

Stanley_4Author

Grand Maestro

The surrounds don't seem to be waiting for anything, they appear to be fully booted and operational, otherwise how would they first tell the app they need an update when queried and then when told to, download the update?

Once the App sees the Beam the lists return to normal.

I think most of the oddness is in the app, not the firmware.

I think this is normal, ‘by design’. The Sonos App is showing ‘Rooms’ your UniFi? is showing ‘Devices’.

That is not what I am trying to discuss, it is that the surrounds are communicating directly with my wifi when the Beam is unavailable. The Update function does not show Rooms or devices, just that it sees a speaker that needs an update.

It is not possible to interact with a bonded Sub/Surround using the Sonos App if the Sounbar is not available, ie you can’t stream to a Surround or Sub, or change volume etc. Therefore why would it show up in App?

Again this is not about showing in tne App or not, it is about the link to my wifi when the Beam is not available.

I recall when a speaker boots, it will obtain a DHCP IP address from the Local Wi-Fi (or Ethernet) adapter, before it bonds. Once its bonds (bridge) to the Soundbar, Unifi will not show the original device, as its no longer active. It will show probably if you enable ‘offline’ devices in the devices view on your UniFi Network App.

As I discussed the DHCP is working as expected, but the related DNS registration is failing in some circumstances. Could be router related as that is where the DNS registration happens, more likely it is a combination Sonos/router issue as only some systems have DHCP issues at reboot time and need the reserved IPs.

C

craigski

Local Superstar

@Stanley_4 I think we are saying the same thing. The Surrounds/Sub will obtain an IP address from their own MAC address when they boot, and IIRC when they are updating, and show up in your UniFi Network App.

When they bond (bridge) they will use the MAC address of the device they are bonded to, and the original device will show offline. I expect that devices are unique by MAC address in your UniFi App, not IP address.

If DNS registration is failing, that would be a router/firewall config issue. There is no requirement for IP reservation for an Sonos HT system, or a local DNS suffix.

I seem to recall that DHCP request can timeout, if the DNS registration fails for whatever reason. Maybe reserving the IP address in DHCP scope with an associated fixed DNS name solves the issue for you, if Sonos devices are all trying to register same DNS names in your specific firewall config without reserved IP addresses?

buzz

Grand Maestro

While using the private connection to a soundbar, regular WiFi is ignored. If the soundbar is absent, regular WiFi is used, but function is very basic while the unit waits for the soundbar to connect. I think that regular WiFi is used during updates because the private connection goes down at some point during an update.

melvimbe

I know that we think of the surrounds being locked into the soundbar for wireless communication, but I am pretty sure that’s only been for audio communication. Besides this example of receiving upgrades while the soundbar is powered off, I would assume that voice commands (that are not requesting music playback) would also work when the soundbar is powered off.

I would also assume (have not tested) that speakers that were previously surround speakers can be reassigned to another room without requiring a factory reset. This obviously wouldn’t be possible if they could not communicate to the router directly.

Danny

buzz

Grand Maestro

Maybe the surrounds will respond to a “Remove Surrounds” command while the soundbar is down, but I don’t know what the soundbar’s response might be when it comes back up. I would think that it will wait for the surrounds. Then there is the question as to being able to remove non existent surrounds that will be visible in the system, but not as bonded surrounds.

AjTrek1

I would assume that voice commands (that are not requesting music playback) would also work when the soundbar is powered off.

If true that would most likely only apply to Era series because as far I know they are the only speakers when used as surrounds that can also be setup with a voice assistant.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.

Show more replies

Sign up

Login to the community