Enthusiast II

Era 300 rear driver is silent (with Arc Ultra)

393 replies
24994 views

First things first. This is not a rant. This is an expalation of a problem, which reduces the experience in 3D audio a lot. For background: I'm a sound engineer and music producer and I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I know what I'm talking about. (I'm a really nice and funny guy :D)

So lets get to the problem then :D

NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT FACING DRIVER

for better understanding watch this VIDEO

This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.

So, since there is not much of a topic around this, I'm curious if I am still one of a few who have this bug or one of a few who noticed it.

I made this post in Reddit, but not everyone is on Reddit and the more people know, the faster Sonos can work on it. Reddit discussion

I didn't saw any review which mentioned it.
As you can see in the video, the rear driver is completly silenent when the Era 300's are paired with the Arc Ultra. Also Truplay isn't "sweeping" the driver either. (Timestamp 0:44)
So the mesurement isn't right.
First I thought it could be a feature instead of a bug, but it doens't fit the Dolby Atmos recommendations like this. You won't get sound from "behind" your seating position.
And I remember Sonos self promoted it how it should work, where the rear driver is playing.

DOLBY ATMOS LAYOUT

Sound from side driver/channel should boucing off your side walls, rear driver/channel bouncing off the back wall of your seating position and height channel obviosly bouncing off your ceiling. Thats why you should position them facing forward. At the moment you don't get the immersion that sound is coming from behind you, since the driver is silent.

I tested every setting, played the Dolby Atmos testfile (MKV [TrueHD Atmos] and MP4 [EAC3 + joc Atmos]) from different sources (TV Plex app, Nvidia Shield, from a USB through TV) Same result everytime.

If someone could test this behavior and can confirm this, it would be very nice. Sonos can't fix something they don't know and if most people doens't recognize doens't mean something isn't wrong.

Currently I'm running app version 80.12.04 (Android) and 80.12.03 (iPhone) and firmware version 81.1-58210.
If you don't have this problem, what version are you running?

And last but not least: IF this ever getting fixed, the experience with Arc Ultra and Era 300 will be much better! I love my Sonos products soundwise and Arc Ultra is sounding really good, but it could be much better.

Have a nice day

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

Pinned Reply By Jamie A

Hi all, thank you all for your patience.

I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.

I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.

The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds.
Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:

Surround TV Level and Music Level Slider Behavior: The surround level sliders adjust the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround channels equally. This is the intended behavior.

Using Surround Distance Setting to Adjust Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers relative to the sound bar:

Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.

Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.

Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.

There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.

The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.
This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.

Edit: Modified the wording on the 2nd and 3rd bolded points to closer match the wording in the app.

View in thread

Show previous replies

N

nik9669a

Senior Virtuoso

Hi @superlollo

Can we please be honest with eachother?

Yes. The video is still here: https://www.sonos.com/en-us/sonos-live, but was taken down from the YouTube channel as part of a general clean up, as I understand it, along with other videos. I agree that the timing was lousy.

The statement made in the video agrees with the statement in print on the Reddit event, which I quoted above. It does seem like this is going win the contest over the information in my documentation - it was this that I was waiting for clarification over, and still am. Official documentation is official documentation, and I have to stick with it, which is why I - and others - have been seeking clarification over this apparent mistake. I apologise for any confusion or consternation caused as a result, but we are trying to rectify matters.

Please know that we are listening to the feedback you are all providing, we are presently investigating the reasons for the feedback, and I personally think it very likely at this point that changes will be made.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for your answer, I appreciate it. Currently the inner drivers are completely disabled, it’s not like the volume is only lower. If it actually is lower, it is 95% lower, you can’t hear anything unless you put your ear right next to it (touching it). At that point you might as well turn it off.

I’m sure it wasn’t like that a couple of months ago, you could clearly hear it. Even in trueplay configuration, both quick and advanced, the inner drivers don’t emit any sound at all.

Having some sort of setup in the app where you can specify your surround placement (corner, close to a wall, no wall) would be extremely beneficial. My B&O speakers have such a setup and it’s not like B&O is a huge software company or anything. Even better, some separate volume sliders for left/right surrounds.

If Sonos is afraid that the user will screw it up, just add an “advanced” mode in the app that enables those functions only for those that want to use it. My router has something similar, when you login you can only see some very basic config options, but then there’s the “expert” menu which allows you to do all sort of stuff at your own risk.

Maybe it needs an extra button too, to revert to Sonos’ Standard Configuration. Make it a two-click process: “Reverting to Standard Configuration will erase all user customisation settings for this room. Are you sure you wish to proceed?”

A

Aidyb

Trending Lyricist I

I feel like such a fool, I went through 3 months of waiting for the fix for the og Arc and sub problem and forgave and forgot too easily, I foolishly went onto to purchase the Era 300’s when they came out and paired with the Arc (the inward drivers worked as then described for rear sound, up firing driver worked as they should, you would only hear them fire when sounds were supposed to be from above)

But then even more stupidly I laid out more cash for the Arc Ultra, so to now being totally gaslit by Sonos by removing all the original information and videos of how the Era 300’s work and sticking your heals in and saying this was all by design is utter garbage, who on earth would mix hight channel sound with rear channel sound and fire it all to the ceiling ? It is beyond belief, my guess this is in an attempt to kill anymore bad press after the latest backlash over the app but you have done completely the opposite I'm afraid.

I was mulling the idea of replacing my hi-fi amp to Sonos before this but not a cat's chance in hell now.

G

Gavalar

Enthusiast II

Hi,

I wrote this in the wrong thread apologies, tweaked here.

My issues with the Arc Ultra and the 300’s are as follows…

Front width play the Arc Ultra side channels and outside 300 channels.

Side channels play the same as above, I.e the Arc Ultra side channels and the 300 outside channels.

The rear channels, you guessed it! Play from the Ultra side channel and the SAME side channels on the 300’s (not the rears).

Atmos front height channels play on the Ultra and the 300’s heights channels. The rear height channels also play on the Ultra’s height channels and the 300’s rear channels.

it should all be independent, I.e. the ultras side channels play front width channels.

The side channels should play the era 300 side channels.

the rear channels should play the era 300 rear channels.

The atmos height channels front and back should play separately.

The OG Arc did 7.2.4 perfectly. The Arc Ultra does 5.2.2 and it’s a mess!

I understand sonos might want to play some of the side channels from the side of the ultra arc, I.e. 20% relative volume, with the sides playing at full volume to help increase the Atmos bubble, but this is not common.

The rear channels should play rear content independently though, it’s mad how the rear drivers in the 300 are completely disabled.

The front and rear Atmos height channels should be independent from each other.

@Corry P is looking into this though. I hope the ‘Engineers’ fix this, say it was an error and get people on board. This is where Sonos has let itself down, by not listening to customers.

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

Hi @superlollo

You have made 3 good points there, and I added them all to the document that will be passed to the people who decide such things. Thank you.

Hi Cory, I know it’s only been 8 days since this response I’m quoting from you but has there been any update such as anyone actually looking into this, or is it still on the back burner?

S

superlollo

Enthusiast II

The current setup is especially bad with 5.1 if you don’t have a perfectly shaped room.
in 5.1 the surround channels should come from the inner drivers, at least give us the option

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @Snoomuffin

I have prepared a response, but it is awaiting editing and approval - this may take some time yet, but it is in progress.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

Hi @Snoomuffin

I have prepared a response, but it is awaiting editing and approval - this may take some time yet, but it is in progress.

Great thanks

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

Can anyone test their height channels on the arc ultra to see if they are bouncing off the ceiling?

I tried Toy Story 4 and at 46:06 on Disney+ when buzz is on the prize board he hears the plush toys talking above him and it is supposed to be coming from the right front height channel on the ultra. Instead it sounds like it is coming from the bar itself. It also sounds louder than the other non-height channels in the ultra which is how I can tell it should be using the height channels. I got an 8ft ceiling with +5 on height.

I tested out the height channels via a Dolby Atmos test, and the front channels work as should so it’s really odd the movie would sound different. Maybe Disney+ is bugged?

I tried asking on reddit but not much feedback.

A

Aidyb

Trending Lyricist I

Can anyone test their height channels on the arc ultra to see if they are bouncing off the ceiling?

I tried Toy Story 4 and at 46:06 on Disney+ when buzz is on the prize board he hears the plush toys talking above him and it is supposed to be coming from the right front height channel on the ultra. Instead it sounds like it is coming from the bar itself. It also sounds louder than the other non-height channels in the ultra which is how I can tell it should be using the height channels. I got an 8ft ceiling with +5 on height.

I tested out the height channels via a Dolby Atmos test, and the front channels work as should so it’s really odd the movie would sound different. Maybe Disney+ is bugged?

I tried asking on reddit but not much feedback.

I tried it and yes it sounds like it's coming from the centre and right channels of the Arc Ultra with just a change in tone and with a hint of it coming from above, but far from convincing… I've not heard the film with any other system so not sure how it would differ..

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

Can anyone test their height channels on the arc ultra to see if they are bouncing off the ceiling?

I tried Toy Story 4 and at 46:06 on Disney+ when buzz is on the prize board he hears the plush toys talking above him and it is supposed to be coming from the right front height channel on the ultra. Instead it sounds like it is coming from the bar itself. It also sounds louder than the other non-height channels in the ultra which is how I can tell it should be using the height channels. I got an 8ft ceiling with +5 on height.

I tested out the height channels via a Dolby Atmos test, and the front channels work as should so it’s really odd the movie would sound different. Maybe Disney+ is bugged?

I tried asking on reddit but not much feedback.

I tried it and yes it sounds like it's coming from the centre and right channels of the Arc Ultra with just a change in tone and with a hint of it coming from above, but far from convincing… I've not heard the film with any other system so not sure how it would differ..

Ok so I’m not the only one. Saves me time from exchanging out the unit, haha.

thanks for your help!

Show more replies

Sign up

Login to the community