Enthusiast II

Era 300 rear driver is silent (with Arc Ultra)

393 replies
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First things first. This is not a rant. This is an expalation of a problem, which reduces the experience in 3D audio a lot. For background: I'm a sound engineer and music producer and I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I know what I'm talking about. (I'm a really nice and funny guy :D)

So lets get to the problem then :D

NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT FACING DRIVER

for better understanding watch this VIDEO

This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.

So, since there is not much of a topic around this, I'm curious if I am still one of a few who have this bug or one of a few who noticed it.

I made this post in Reddit, but not everyone is on Reddit and the more people know, the faster Sonos can work on it. Reddit discussion

I didn't saw any review which mentioned it.
As you can see in the video, the rear driver is completly silenent when the Era 300's are paired with the Arc Ultra. Also Truplay isn't "sweeping" the driver either. (Timestamp 0:44)
So the mesurement isn't right.
First I thought it could be a feature instead of a bug, but it doens't fit the Dolby Atmos recommendations like this. You won't get sound from "behind" your seating position.
And I remember Sonos self promoted it how it should work, where the rear driver is playing.

DOLBY ATMOS LAYOUT

Sound from side driver/channel should boucing off your side walls, rear driver/channel bouncing off the back wall of your seating position and height channel obviosly bouncing off your ceiling. Thats why you should position them facing forward. At the moment you don't get the immersion that sound is coming from behind you, since the driver is silent.

I tested every setting, played the Dolby Atmos testfile (MKV [TrueHD Atmos] and MP4 [EAC3 + joc Atmos]) from different sources (TV Plex app, Nvidia Shield, from a USB through TV) Same result everytime.

If someone could test this behavior and can confirm this, it would be very nice. Sonos can't fix something they don't know and if most people doens't recognize doens't mean something isn't wrong.

Currently I'm running app version 80.12.04 (Android) and 80.12.03 (iPhone) and firmware version 81.1-58210.
If you don't have this problem, what version are you running?

And last but not least: IF this ever getting fixed, the experience with Arc Ultra and Era 300 will be much better! I love my Sonos products soundwise and Arc Ultra is sounding really good, but it could be much better.

Have a nice day

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Pinned Reply By Jamie A

Hi all, thank you all for your patience.

I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.

I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.

The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds.
Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:

Surround TV Level and Music Level Slider Behavior: The surround level sliders adjust the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround channels equally. This is the intended behavior.

Using Surround Distance Setting to Adjust Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers relative to the sound bar:

Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.

Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.

Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.

There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.

The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.
This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.

Edit: Modified the wording on the 2nd and 3rd bolded points to closer match the wording in the app.

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AjTrek1

This is my last post to this thread as driving up the number of comments received is detrimental as well. As it just legitimatizes a falsehood.

This thread was started (as was aptly pointed out) that the Author made the following comment, and I quote….

“This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.”

How the Author concluded; that it was a “Bug” (regardless of their credentials stating that “I know what I’m talking about”) boggles the mind. They were not part of the team that designed the Arc, Arc Ultra nor the Era 300 and subsequent behaviors. So, for my part the OP only stated their opinion.

Fast forward to the Community Moderator’s reply and here’s what was given by way of explanation….

Hi all, thank you all for your patience.
I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behavior as explained by our audio team.
“I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.
The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds.
Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:
Surround TV Level and Music Level Slider Behavior: The surround level sliders adjust the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround channels equally. This is the intended behavior.
Using Surround Distance Setting to Adjust Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers relative to the sound bar:
Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.
Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.
Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.
This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.

As far as I’m concerned, a rational person would accept the answer that was put forth by the Sonos design engineers. The Era 300 rear driver being silent is not a “bug” when bonded the Arc Ultra as surrounds; but intended behavior by design. That’s the definitive answer plain and simple.

Fast forward again...

Someone suggested Sonos send an update to allow the user to turn the rear driver on/off. Thus, allowing the user to decide the sound parameters of the Era 300 when used as surrounds with the Arc Ultra.

OK…that’s a reasonable request and may have been considered by the engineers. However, since it has not been granted, one must assume that after careful consideration it was denied for reasons we can only speculate. Regardless, the original designed behavior of the Era 300 when used as surrounds with the Arc Ultra stands.

To conclude…

After two months certain people are still pushing the issue as a design flaw (bug). People researching the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s reading this thread and viewing the number of comments may believe the rhetoric without having experienced the sound for themselves. Those who may own the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s may buy-into the claims being made because of the sheer number of posts. In other words, they are being influenced not to believe their ears; but rather what is being put forth in this thread.

The answer has been given regarding the Era 300’s behavior when bonded to the Arc Ultra as surrounds. From what I can perceive; after two months of saber rattling in this thread insisting there is a bug, the answer is not going to change.

Here’s something you might do….send the Author of this thread a PM and pull them back into the conversation, as they seem to have gone silent for two months. 🤔

That’s it for me…I’m out!

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi All

Clearly, this thread has gone off the rails somewhat. As a result, it will now be closed to further discourse.

You are free to open a new topic to discuss this, but personal attacks need to be kept out of it.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi All

I have made the following post which you may be interested in:

Please be aware that the change made may not relate to the specific problem stated here, but you may find that you will want to try adjusting the setting after installing the update, just to see if it improves matters for you in any way.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

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