Enthusiast II

Era 300 rear driver is silent (with Arc Ultra)

393 replies
24997 views

First things first. This is not a rant. This is an expalation of a problem, which reduces the experience in 3D audio a lot. For background: I'm a sound engineer and music producer and I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I know what I'm talking about. (I'm a really nice and funny guy :D)

So lets get to the problem then :D

NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT FACING DRIVER

for better understanding watch this VIDEO

This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.

So, since there is not much of a topic around this, I'm curious if I am still one of a few who have this bug or one of a few who noticed it.

I made this post in Reddit, but not everyone is on Reddit and the more people know, the faster Sonos can work on it. Reddit discussion

I didn't saw any review which mentioned it.
As you can see in the video, the rear driver is completly silenent when the Era 300's are paired with the Arc Ultra. Also Truplay isn't "sweeping" the driver either. (Timestamp 0:44)
So the mesurement isn't right.
First I thought it could be a feature instead of a bug, but it doens't fit the Dolby Atmos recommendations like this. You won't get sound from "behind" your seating position.
And I remember Sonos self promoted it how it should work, where the rear driver is playing.

DOLBY ATMOS LAYOUT

Sound from side driver/channel should boucing off your side walls, rear driver/channel bouncing off the back wall of your seating position and height channel obviosly bouncing off your ceiling. Thats why you should position them facing forward. At the moment you don't get the immersion that sound is coming from behind you, since the driver is silent.

I tested every setting, played the Dolby Atmos testfile (MKV [TrueHD Atmos] and MP4 [EAC3 + joc Atmos]) from different sources (TV Plex app, Nvidia Shield, from a USB through TV) Same result everytime.

If someone could test this behavior and can confirm this, it would be very nice. Sonos can't fix something they don't know and if most people doens't recognize doens't mean something isn't wrong.

Currently I'm running app version 80.12.04 (Android) and 80.12.03 (iPhone) and firmware version 81.1-58210.
If you don't have this problem, what version are you running?

And last but not least: IF this ever getting fixed, the experience with Arc Ultra and Era 300 will be much better! I love my Sonos products soundwise and Arc Ultra is sounding really good, but it could be much better.

Have a nice day

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Pinned Reply By Jamie A

Hi all, thank you all for your patience.

I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.

I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.

The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds.
Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:

Surround TV Level and Music Level Slider Behavior: The surround level sliders adjust the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround channels equally. This is the intended behavior.

Using Surround Distance Setting to Adjust Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers relative to the sound bar:

Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.

Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.

Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.

There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.

The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.
This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.

Edit: Modified the wording on the 2nd and 3rd bolded points to closer match the wording in the app.

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superlollo

Enthusiast II

I also spoke to Sonos support. At first he thought I was talking about the center speaker, but then he said (CHAT gpt from Swedish)

Yes, that is the intended behavior in a Dolby Atmos surround setup with the Era 300. When used as rear surround speakers, the inner, forward-facing driver (the one closest to you if you're sitting on a couch) is not utilized. Instead, the upward-firing driver handles height effects, and the side-firing drivers manage spatial surround sound to create the Atmos soundscape. This design optimizes the immersive experience by focusing on the spatial and height elements of the sound.

idk if the translation is broke or what, but it’s not really clear what he means: first he says “the inner, forward facing driver” is not utilized. It doesn’t say one AND the other, so he might still be referring to the forward facing driver, because “the side firing driverS” (PLURAL) manage spatial sound etc etc

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Spaxx24

Trending Lyricist II

Yeah that is true actually. Maybe he is still talking about the center one… First time I asked the question he definatelly was, I then clearified and he wrote this. But yeah seems like he still might thought I was talking about center.

That is why Im still inclined to belive Corry P here, customer-service is great but when people complain about a issue that sounds very close to something very well known it is very easy to just put the problem in that bucket. I’m going to try again.

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superlollo

Enthusiast II

I’m pretty sure there is another sonos employee other than Corry in this forum, but I don’t remember the name. If someone does then maybe we can also tag him here and he can shed some light on the issue

dominikleiAuthor

Enthusiast II

Yeah that is true actually. Maybe he is still talking about the center one… First time I asked the question he definatelly was, I then clearified and he wrote this. But yeah seems like he still might thought I was talking about center.

That is why Im still inclined to belive Corry P here, customer-service is great but when people complain about a issue that sounds very close to something very well known it is very easy to just put the problem in that bucket. I’m going to try again.

I know that the support in germany is 100% aware what we are talking about. He said that they got an informationsheet from Sonos yesterday and every supportmember can look into it now. Its from the audio team.

But he also said that maybe a level 1 support doens't know what we are talking about tho

S

superlollo

Enthusiast II

Yeah that is true actually. Maybe he is still talking about the center one… First time I asked the question he definatelly was, I then clearified and he wrote this. But yeah seems like he still might thought I was talking about center.

That is why Im still inclined to belive Corry P here, customer-service is great but when people complain about a issue that sounds very close to something very well known it is very easy to just put the problem in that bucket. I’m going to try again.

I know that the support in germany is 100% aware what we are talking about. He said that they got an informationsheet from Sonos yesterday and every supportmember can look into it now. Its from the audio team.

would love to see that. I still don’t believe this is intentional, it’d be far too stupid, even for Sonos. It used to work just fine and it did sound better, so….

dominikleiAuthor

Enthusiast II

Yeah that is true actually. Maybe he is still talking about the center one… First time I asked the question he definatelly was, I then clearified and he wrote this. But yeah seems like he still might thought I was talking about center.

That is why Im still inclined to belive Corry P here, customer-service is great but when people complain about a issue that sounds very close to something very well known it is very easy to just put the problem in that bucket. I’m going to try again.

I know that the support in germany is 100% aware what we are talking about. He said that they got an informationsheet from Sonos yesterday and every supportmember can look into it now. Its from the audio team.

would love to see that. I still don’t believe this is intentional, it’d be far too stupid, even for Sonos. It used to work just fine and it did sound better, so….

The german support guy is really nice and just asked some of my questions to the audio team. My guess is that the audio team is a bit ignorant. Thats what they responded (Chat GPT translation):

Question: Why the inner of the speakers (the rear channel), is not audible during the Trueplay measurement (as noted in the video).
Feedback: Trueplay works as expected and by design. The rear channel has more than one driver and sometimes uses a combination of drivers.
Question: In some movies, the current design seems inappropriate, as if the sound is coming from the upper channel, even though it should come from the rear channels.
Feedback: We understand that such questions can arise. The current behavior has been thoroughly checked/tested and corresponds to the intended design for the best sound experience.

Regarding the question of why it was different before and has now changed slightly:
We can only partially confirm that. The soundbar audio has been optimized several times (see previous release notes). However, since the introduction of the Arc (June 10, 2020), no changes have been made to the surround experience. The experience should be consistent across our entire product range. Our audio team has confirmed this several times.

The last paragraph (in bold) is simply a lie from the audio team. I tested it multiple times to adjust the volumes back then, and it was definitely different before. Otherwise, I would have never started this discussion.

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superlollo

Enthusiast II

“Question: Why the inner of the speakers (the rear channel), is not audible during the Trueplay measurement (as noted in the video).
Feedback: Trueplay works as expected and by design. The rear channel has more than one driver and sometimes uses a combination of drivers.
Question: In some movies, the current design seems inappropriate, as if the sound is coming from the upper channel, even though it should come from the rear channels.
Feedback: We understand that such questions can arise. The current behavior has been thoroughly checked/tested and corresponds to the intended design for the best sound experience.”

This sounds so arrogant, I wonder if this was really written by someone from the audio team and if they did, if they actually took time to read and understand the questions

EDIT: These answers almost sound like they were given by a chatbot lol

dominikleiAuthor

Enthusiast II

Official anwser from Keith:

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/comments/1hb3od2/comment/m1ovztu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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Spaxx24

Trending Lyricist II

Great case closed, back to enjoying the system

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superlollo

Enthusiast II

What a joke.

They market the Era 300s as 6 driver speaker (so they can charge you 500 bucks a piece) but if you use them as surrounds they become 3 driver speakers because someone decided that the rear channels should be played by the heights tweeter. Literally half the drivers are disabled (lol) and the sound that is supposed to come from behind will come from your ceiling (lol x2). This is a disgrace.

I’m speechless, this is beyond stupid and is really an insult to your customers.

@Keith - Sonos @Corry P

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