Hi everyone!
I'm looking to buy a Sonos Beam to get the surround option for my Sonos system. Sonos supports surround in the form of the soundbar doing the FR, center and FL channels, and pairing up with two speakers as RR and RL. They don't support separate front speakers. I was wondering, why has no one grouped that "room" with another "room" consisting of a stereo pair, and then using that stereo pair as "real" FR and FL speakers? Could anyone try that for me, because I would like to know if it just works and if there's any trouble. It should be possible since you can pass along the stereo signal from the Beam to another room, and this would be fitting for the front channels.
I wan't to space out the left and right front channels really far, so please don't tell me that "the soundbar spaces it out enough" 😃
That would give me "real" 5.1, but the front left and right would be doubled.
Thanks a lot, appreciate your time in advance.
EDIT: I contacted Sonos via Twitter, and they also said that this in theory should be possible, however this is not how it was intended. Also, delay and cutouts should be no problem since I plan on using Ethernet for the whole system.
Best,
Søren
Sonos surround setup, but with extra FR and FL channels by grouping
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Would love if this were to work, but due to the way that Sonos was designed, there's a buffer introduced in the system when communicating from one room to the next (I'm simplifying). The minimum delay is around 75ms. So in the case you're suggesting, there's be at least that delay between the TV "room" and the grouped front speakers "room" that you have, which would give you a good "echo" effect.
This request has been made many, many times, with the normal response from Sonos of "we'll pass it along".
This request has been made many, many times, with the normal response from Sonos of "we'll pass it along".
Sonos told me that those 75ms is from converting the analog audio in on a Connect, to digital. When using HDMI ARC, the delay should be very small, hence why I added the comment about me using Ethernet to get a high speed connection needed for the almost zero-to-none buffer. Sonos would always bring speakers in sync, so if any delay would be present, it would be on the entire group, so no echo occur, and I can live with that. I just need evidence that it actually works before I buy. 😃
Conversion from analog to digital is virtually instant. Packetisation for transport, plus playout buffer at the far end to allow for variation in packet transit times, accounts for the 75ms.
Ethernet or not, there's the same amount of buffering. I'm afraid this would introduce an unbearable echo between the Beam and the grouped room containing the other two speakers.
Ethernet or not, there's the same amount of buffering. I'm afraid this would introduce an unbearable echo between the Beam and the grouped room containing the other two speakers.
Exact same configuration? No. But we know what Sonos does, and an Ethernet connection is no different from a wireless one in terms of buffering/latency provision. Of course "in theory" a 100% wired system could operate with shallower buffers, but that's not how Sonos is designed to work. In the vast majority of cases some or all players are wireless.
To be frank, if you want a wide sound stage for your front speakers you should go for an Amp instead of a Beam, driving a pair of passive speakers. Amp's centre channel for 5.1 is a "phantom" one, i.e. created by L and R speakers outputting identical signals.
To be frank, if you want a wide sound stage for your front speakers you should go for an Amp instead of a Beam, driving a pair of passive speakers. Amp's centre channel for 5.1 is a "phantom" one, i.e. created by L and R speakers outputting identical signals.
fraannk,
It is possible to compensate for the 75ms latency by tinkering with the Lipsync adjustment associated with the soundbars --- however --- this might result in Lipsync issues with the TV audio. In any case the L/R stereo version of the audio emitted by the external speakers will conflict somewhat with the L/R emitted by the soundbar.
If the L/R external speakers image well and are relatively close to the TV, a center channel speaker is redundant and an AMP would be a better choice for you.
The SONOS soundbars are easy to setup, work well, and make lots of people very happy. That said, I think that you would be better served with a traditional A/V receiver and L/C/R speaker setup. With a modern TV and AVR you could get into Dolby Atmos after adding more speakers. SONOS does not support Atmos.
It is possible to compensate for the 75ms latency by tinkering with the Lipsync adjustment associated with the soundbars --- however --- this might result in Lipsync issues with the TV audio. In any case the L/R stereo version of the audio emitted by the external speakers will conflict somewhat with the L/R emitted by the soundbar.
If the L/R external speakers image well and are relatively close to the TV, a center channel speaker is redundant and an AMP would be a better choice for you.
The SONOS soundbars are easy to setup, work well, and make lots of people very happy. That said, I think that you would be better served with a traditional A/V receiver and L/C/R speaker setup. With a modern TV and AVR you could get into Dolby Atmos after adding more speakers. SONOS does not support Atmos.
+18If you were to group a stereo pair as extra FL and FR they would not play FL and FR surround, but also play the center sounds. This could muddle the surround effect.
I've got a pair of PLAY:5s flanking my TV that I use for music playback and listening to baseball games via AirPlay 2 and TuneIn Premium.
I just grouped them with my PLAYBAR while watching F1 qualifying (via DVR, I'm a lazy person). The echo effect is substantial and a deal breaker for me, and as 106rallye suggests, it does muddle the center channel rather quite a bit. It isn't a test I want to repeat, ever.
This doesn't surprise me. As all of the posters in this thread have indicated, this is due to the way Sonos is designed. Until they decide to make substantial changes (if it's even possible) to the way that Sonos works, this kind of thing is not going to be possible.
My hope is that at some point, Sonos figures out some sort of device that will take a Dolby Digital signal and feed 5.1 disparate speakers. I'll be happy to make additional purchases. But until that point, I'm rather pleased with the two PLAYBARs and associated SUBs and PLAY:1s I have. But I still wouldn't expect such a device to deal with being "grouped" with other rooms without delay. There's a price that must be paid in order to be able to play a synchronous signal across an internet connection. That price is a small amount of delay in the signal.
I just grouped them with my PLAYBAR while watching F1 qualifying (via DVR, I'm a lazy person). The echo effect is substantial and a deal breaker for me, and as 106rallye suggests, it does muddle the center channel rather quite a bit. It isn't a test I want to repeat, ever.
This doesn't surprise me. As all of the posters in this thread have indicated, this is due to the way Sonos is designed. Until they decide to make substantial changes (if it's even possible) to the way that Sonos works, this kind of thing is not going to be possible.
My hope is that at some point, Sonos figures out some sort of device that will take a Dolby Digital signal and feed 5.1 disparate speakers. I'll be happy to make additional purchases. But until that point, I'm rather pleased with the two PLAYBARs and associated SUBs and PLAY:1s I have. But I still wouldn't expect such a device to deal with being "grouped" with other rooms without delay. There's a price that must be paid in order to be able to play a synchronous signal across an internet connection. That price is a small amount of delay in the signal.
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