Contributor I

Sonos Home Theater Receiver?

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I own a Beam. It's works alright, but I do not have other Sonos speakers to group with it. All other wireless speakers are Amazon Echoes (separate topic).

In another room, I have an Onkyo powered Home Theater with true 5.1 surround playing out of 5 separate Boston Acoustic Speakers and an SVS subwoofer. Seems like it would be a no brainer to play the same music on this system as the Beam (when I'm not using either one for watching movies of course).

I do not want a Connect.

The Amp and Playbase combine the three front channels into one speaker...boo!

I understand the 75ms delay.

So...

Why doesn't Sonos get into the Home Theater receiver market by creating a receiver that could solve all of these issues/use cases and rake in a bunch of money?

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G

GoodyGizmosAuthor

Contributor I

I'm not quite following what's being asked for here. If it's asking to be able to setup a 5.1 HT system with Sonos amplification/processing, but 3rd party passive speakers, this is already possible...almost. You can setup the front channels (left, right, simulated center) + sub (Sonos or wired active sub). Then you add a second amp for the rear channels. It's technically 4.1, but I'm not sure it makes sense for Sonos to make a single amp/receiver that covers all channels in a single box. For one thing, that means you'd have to wire front and back speakers from the same central location. That's rather difficult in many open concept spaces. The other is that it's only useful for those who don't want to use Sonos speakers for the rear channel. I'm not quite seeing what's missing here.

I think you get almost exactly what I think is missing here. Re-read your own first paragraph and @Dbjones20 reply.

It’s really simple. I want a Home Theater quality AV receiver that can process (at least) 5.1 as discrete signals sent to separate speakers. All of the speakers should have the option of being wired or Sonos wireless. For me, then, I would wire my three fronts and sub and use Ones (or the new One SL’s) as wireless surrounds. Since the receiver would also be processing the video signal (e.g. HDMI), Sonos processing would then be able to sync the amped wired audio channels, pre-amped wireless audio channels going to Sonos speakers over WiFi, and the video signal going to the TV/projector. When not using it as a home theater (e.g. a party), this setup would also allow me to use up to all 6 of those speakers (configurable by the user) as a Sonos zone.

Yes, the new Port looks interesting, but it still adds another component when I think the right move is to include it as a capability in a receiver than can also distribute synced surrounds (home theater use case). Plus, it’s $400. That’s frickin’ crazy for what it is and is about half the cost of my current Onkyo 7.1 Home Theater AV receiver. But, at least it’s black (not white like Connect). 😆

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106rallye

I think you are understimating the work Sonos would have to put into such a receiver.

By the way: my Connect is black, see https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flexson-ColourPlay-Skin-SONOS-CONNECT/dp/B00KISBV2K

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melvimbe

It’s really simple. I want a Home Theater quality AV receiver that can process (at least) 5.1 as discrete signals sent to separate speakers. All of the speakers should have the option of being wired or Sonos wireless.

That's going to add tremendous cost to this hypotehtical unit. You don't want to buy amp(s) that you aren't going to use because you're sending the channel to an active speaker. Sonos allows you to buy combinations of amps and speakers that fits what you need with minimal stuff that you don't. No, it doesn't have all the features that every HT enthusiast in looking for, but it's aiming to hit the boxes for the common user.

For me, then, I would wire my three fronts and sub and use Ones (or the new One SL’s) as wireless surrounds.

You do know you can do this already, with the exception that the center is phantom/simulated, right? And you only have to pay $600 from the amp, vs $1000+ for the receiver product your asking for.

Since the receiver would also be processing the video signal (e.g. HDMI), Sonos processing would then be able to sync the amped wired audio channels, pre-amped wireless audio channels going to Sonos speakers over WiFi, and the video signal going to the TV/projector.

But there's no need for Sonos to process video channels With the growth in smart TVs, much of the content people watch doesn't even come through HDMI at all, and you actually need to receive audio from the TV, instead of having all your sources come through the receiver with the reciever just passing along the video signal. The Amp (and all the other HT products) does get the signal from the TV and will sync it's amped wired channels with the pre-amped wireless audio channels. That aspect, isn't anything new.

When not using it as a home theater (e.g. a party), this setup would also allow me to use up to all 6 of those speakers (configurable by the user) as a Sonos zone.

It already is a Sonos Zone. There are limits to how you can configure them though, basically with rear surrounds off or playing stereo along with the front channels.

Yes, the new Port looks interesting, but it still adds another component when I think the right move is to include it as a capability in a receiver than can also distribute synced surrounds (home theater use case)
.

Well, then the Port would be the Amp.

Plus, it’s $400. That’s frickin’ crazy for what it is and is about half the cost of my current Onkyo 7.1 Home Theater AV receiver. But, at least it’s black (not white like Connect). 😆

You got a 7.1 HT AV for $200? The cheapest Onkyo 7.1 HT on Crutchfield right now is $380. It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison regardless as the Port isn't a receiver, it's value is in it's ability to integrate audio in and out of the Sonos system. What that means to a person depends on their Sonos sytem and how important it is to integrate their non-Sonos system. The price is absolutely higher than I'd like it to be.

I get that you want a system that's extremely flexible that can do whatever it is you may dream up. I somewhat agree in that I'd want a device that acts a hub for wireless channels in a rather flexible way, I don't want to amps in it though. I don't agree that Sonos needs to start doing video signal processing. I don't know that the cost of developing products with this level of flexibility has a big enough market to justify it. I hope there is, but I don't see overwhelming evidence.

And I'd as well that those who are going to do serious HT. Those that are going get the right size room with a huge screen, 7.4.2 sound, etc...they likely are going to be willing to cut into the walls for passive speakers and not care about wireless speakers anyway. Sonos won't be much of an advantage to them. And a $400 port will suffice for those that do want whole home. Not all, but certainly the majority.

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Danny

G

GoodyGizmosAuthor

Contributor I

I think you are understimating the work Sonos would have to put into such a receiver.

At these prices, frankly, I don't care.

By the way: my Connect is black, see https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flexson-ColourPlay-Skin-SONOS-CONNECT/dp/B00KISBV2K

I looked into those skins, they're discontinued (but N/A now that the Port is coming out)

It’s really simple. I want a Home Theater quality AV receiver that can process (at least) 5.1 as discrete signals sent to separate speakers.

All of the speakers should have the option of being wired or Sonos wireless.That's going to add tremendous cost to this hypotehtical unit. You don't want to buy amp(s) that you aren't going to use because you're sending the channel to an active speaker. Sonos allows you to buy combinations of amps and speakers that fits what you need with minimal stuff that you don't. No, it doesn't have all the features that every HT enthusiast in looking for, but it's aiming to hit the boxes for the common user.

Have you looked at the back of an AV Receiver lately? Lots of unused ports on them already. I suspect that focusing in on these sort of use cases (Home Theater wireless surround + Sonos extendibility) would make for a receiver no more or less complicated or costly than those. I'm happy that you and may others are happy with their current offerings. I am not.

For me, then, I would wire my three fronts and sub and use Ones (or the new One SL’s) as wireless surrounds.

You do know you can do this already, with the exception that the center is phantom/simulated, right? And you only have to pay $600 from the amp, vs $1000+ for the receiver product your asking for.

I cannot because of the 75ms WiFi delay and I do no want a phantom/simulated center

Since the receiver would also be processing the video signal (e.g. HDMI), Sonos processing would then be able to sync the amped wired audio channels, pre-amped wireless audio channels going to Sonos speakers over WiFi, and the video signal going to the TV/projector.

But there's no need for Sonos to process video channels With the growth in smart TVs, much of the content people watch doesn't even come through HDMI at all, and you actually need to receive audio from the TV, instead of having all your sources come through the receiver with the reciever just passing along the video signal. The Amp (and all the other HT products) does get the signal from the TV and will sync it's amped wired channels with the pre-amped wireless audio channels. That aspect, isn't anything new.

75ms WiFi delay is why

When not using it as a home theater (e.g. a party), this setup would also allow me to use up to all 6 of those speakers (configurable by the user) as a Sonos zone.

It already is a Sonos Zone. There are limits to how you can configure them though, basically with rear surrounds off or playing stereo along with the front channels.

What is "It?"

Yes, the new Port looks interesting, but it still adds another component when I think the right move is to include it as a capability in a receiver than can also distribute synced surrounds (home theater use case)
.

Well, then the Port would be the Amp.

Amp does not do what I want either

Plus, it’s $400. That’s frickin’ crazy for what it is and is about half the cost of my current Onkyo 7.1 Home Theater AV receiver. But, at least it’s black (not white like Connect). 😆

You got a 7.1 HT AV for $200? The cheapest Onkyo 7.1 HT on Crutchfield right now is $380. It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison regardless as the Port isn't a receiver, it's value is in it's ability to integrate audio in and out of the Sonos system. What that means to a person depends on their Sonos sytem and how important it is to integrate their non-Sonos system. The price is absolutely higher than I'd like it to be.

$400 x 2 = $800. Exactly, it's a fancy audio streaming box.
I get that you want a system that's extremely flexible that can do whatever it is you may dream up. I somewhat agree in that I'd want a device that acts a hub for wireless channels in a rather flexible way, I don't want to amps in it though. I don't agree that Sonos needs to start doing video signal processing. I don't know that the cost of developing products with this level of flexibility has a big enough market to justify it. I hope there is, but I don't see overwhelming evidence.

And I'd as well that those who are going to do serious HT. Those that are going get the right size room with a huge screen, 7.4.2 sound, etc...they likely are going to be willing to cut into the walls for passive speakers and not care about wireless speakers anyway. Sonos won't be much of an advantage to them. And a $400 port will suffice for those that do want whole home. Not all, but certainly the majority.

I disagree, but thank you for your perspective.

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S

sonosg

Enthusiast I

I would be interested in a true 5.1 Sonos solution.

I'll qualify my requirement for 5.1 - five individual speakers placed at 5 independent locations (Front Left, Center, Front Right, Rear Left, Rear Right) plus a subwoofer.

A Sonos playbar solution misses this by not providing the Front Left and Front Right as individual independent speakers. Yes, the playbar acts like L/C/R, but that is not what I am looking for.

A Sonos AMP solution misses this by not providing the Center channel as an individual independent speaker. Yes, the AMP provides a phantom center, but that is not what I am looking for.

So Sonos can process and provide all the individual channels, it just can't provide them to individual independent speakers in one setup. Yes, I could use a Port and feed it to an AVR, but that is not what I am looking for.

What is the market for this? Who knows. But for me, this is what I would be looking for, no less.

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melvimbe

Have you looked at the back of an AV Receiver lately? Lots of unused ports on them already. I suspect that focusing in on these sort of use cases (Home Theater wireless surround + Sonos extendibility) would make for a receiver no more or less complicated or costly than those. I'm happy that you and may others are happy with their current offerings. I am not.

I think your underestimating the complexity of Sonos's speaker to speaker streaming protocol. I don't think you could just take an average AV receiver, throw in a radio, memory, etc, and say it's now a Sonos receiver. Add a $50 premium.. It's not a matter of being happy with the current offerings, and I am not 100% happy myself. It's a matter of understand what the current products can do, why some of the limitations exist, what the wider market wants, and what makes products are sensible for Sonos to make.

For me, then, I would wire my three fronts and sub and use Ones (or the new One SL’s) as wireless surrounds.
You do know you can do this already, with the exception that the center is phantom/simulated, right? And you only have to pay $600 from the amp, vs $1000+ for the receiver product your asking for.

I cannot because of the 75ms WiFi delay and I do no want a phantom/simulated center

Incorrect. There is no 75ms delay for speakers/amps bonded in a HT room/zone. The speakers/amps communicate over 5Ghz wireless in this scenario with minimal buffering, different then normal audio between different rooms over 2.4GHz If you don't want a soundbar or phantom center channel, then yes, Sonos doesn't have an option for you.

Since the receiver would also be processing the video signal (e.g. HDMI), Sonos processing would then be able to sync the amped wired audio channels, pre-amped wireless audio channels going to Sonos speakers over WiFi, and the video signal going to the TV/projector.
But there's no need for Sonos to process video channels With the growth in smart TVs, much of the content people watch doesn't even come through HDMI at all, and you actually need to receive audio from the TV, instead of having all your sources come through the receiver with the reciever just passing along the video signal. The Amp (and all the other HT products) does get the signal from the TV and will sync it's amped wired channels with the pre-amped wireless audio channels. That aspect, isn't anything new.

75ms WiFi delay is why

As I stated before, this is incorrect. I'm not even sure where this thought is coming from as Sonos wouldn't be able to have any wireless HT offerings at all if it came with 75ms delays.

When not using it as a home theater (e.g. a party), this setup would also allow me to use up to all 6 of those speakers (configurable by the user) as a Sonos zone.
It already is a Sonos Zone. There are limits to how you can configure them though, basically with rear surrounds off or playing stereo along with the front channels.

What is "It?"

Whatever combination of speakers and amps you setup for a home theatre. They are a single Sonos zone (aka 'room'). I currently have a playbar+sub+ 2 play3s form my main living area. When watching TV, it's normal 5.1 DD sound. When streaming audio, I have it set so the playbar plays stereo and the play:3s play stereo. I can turn the play:3s off for audio if I wanted to. In another room I have a Beam+sub+2 play:1s with the same configurations.

Yes, the new Port looks interesting, but it still adds another component when I think the right move is to include it as a capability in a receiver than can also distribute synced surrounds (home theater use case)
.
Well, then the Port would be the Amp.

Amp does not do what I want either

Maybe because you think there is a 75 ms delay in wireless communication? I get that you want an all-in-one box with all the amps, radio, etc that you could want, like you get with a receiver minus all the Sonos features, but it sounds like what you want can be achieved, except for the dedicated center channel, with Sonos current products.

Plus, it’s $400. That’s frickin’ crazy for what it is and is about half the cost of my current Onkyo 7.1 Home Theater AV receiver. But, at least it’s black (not white like Connect). 😆
You got a 7.1 HT AV for $200? The cheapest Onkyo 7.1 HT on Crutchfield right now is $380. It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison regardless as the Port isn't a receiver, it's value is in it's ability to integrate audio in and out of the Sonos system. What that means to a person depends on their Sonos sytem and how important it is to integrate their non-Sonos system. The price is absolutely higher than I'd like it to be.

$400 x 2 = $800. Exactly, it's a fancy audio streaming box.

Why would you need 2 Ports? You can only use one port per zone. Only one is needed matched with a single non-Sonos receiver/amp.

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Danny

G

GoodyGizmosAuthor

Contributor I

Have you looked at the back of an AV Receiver lately? Lots of unused ports on them already. I suspect that focusing in on these sort of use cases (Home Theater wireless surround + Sonos extendibility) would make for a receiver no more or less complicated or costly than those. I'm happy that you and may others are happy with their current offerings. I am not.

I think your underestimating the complexity of Sonos's speaker to speaker streaming protocol. I don't think you could just take an average AV receiver, throw in a radio, memory, etc, and say it's now a Sonos receiver. Add a $50 premium.. It's not a matter of being happy with the current offerings, and I am not 100% happy myself. It's a matter of understand what the current products can do, why some of the limitations exist, what the wider market wants, and what makes products are sensible for Sonos to make.

Well, I think I do understand their current offerings and they do not cover my use case(s). We're now talking in circles in this area.

For me, then, I would wire my three fronts and sub and use Ones (or the new One SL’s) as wireless surrounds.
You do know you can do this already, with the exception that the center is phantom/simulated, right? And you only have to pay $600 from the amp, vs $1000+ for the receiver product your asking for.

I cannot because of the 75ms WiFi delay and I do no want a phantom/simulated center

Incorrect. There is no 75ms delay for speakers/amps bonded in a HT room/zone. The speakers/amps communicate over 5Ghz wireless in this scenario with minimal buffering, different then normal audio between different rooms over 2.4GHz If you don't want a soundbar or phantom center channel, then yes, Sonos doesn't have an option for you.

Yep, you got it!

Since the receiver would also be processing the video signal (e.g. HDMI), Sonos processing would then be able to sync the amped wired audio channels, pre-amped wireless audio channels going to Sonos speakers over WiFi, and the video signal going to the TV/projector.
But there's no need for Sonos to process video channels With the growth in smart TVs, much of the content people watch doesn't even come through HDMI at all, and you actually need to receive audio from the TV, instead of having all your sources come through the receiver with the reciever just passing along the video signal. The Amp (and all the other HT products) does get the signal from the TV and will sync it's amped wired channels with the pre-amped wireless audio channels. That aspect, isn't anything new.

75ms WiFi delay is why

As I stated before, this is incorrect. I'm not even sure where this thought is coming from as Sonos wouldn't be able to have any wireless HT offerings at all if it came with 75ms delays.

...or, maybe not...If the audio and video processing was all contained in the receiver, Sonos could most certainly do this.

When not using it as a home theater (e.g. a party), this setup would also allow me to use up to all 6 of those speakers (configurable by the user) as a Sonos zone.
It already is a Sonos Zone. There are limits to how you can configure them though, basically with rear surrounds off or playing stereo along with the front channels.

What is "It?"

Whatever combination of speakers and amps you setup for a home theatre. They are a single Sonos zone (aka 'room'). I currently have a playbar+sub+ 2 play3s form my main living area. When watching TV, it's normal 5.1 DD sound. When streaming audio, I have it set so the playbar plays stereo and the play:3s play stereo. I can turn the play:3s off for audio if I wanted to. In another room I have a Beam+sub+2 play:1s with the same configurations.

Right, I want separate front channels. You do not have "normal" 5.1 DD sound. You have 3.1 sound at best. Again, I'm glad (it seems) you like that. It's not what I want.

Yes, the new Port looks interesting, but it still adds another component when I think the right move is to include it as a capability in a receiver than can also distribute synced surrounds (home theater use case)
.
Well, then the Port would be the Amp.

Amp does not do what I want either

Maybe because you think there is a 75 ms delay in wireless communication? I get that you want an all-in-one box with all the amps, radio, etc that you could want, like you get with a receiver minus all the Sonos features, but it sounds like what you want can be achieved, except for the dedicated center channel, with Sonos current products."Except" and I don't want separate components

Plus, it’s $400. That’s frickin’ crazy for what it is and is about half the cost of my current Onkyo 7.1 Home Theater AV receiver. But, at least it’s black (not white like Connect). 😆
You got a 7.1 HT AV for $200? The cheapest Onkyo 7.1 HT on Crutchfield right now is $380. It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison regardless as the Port isn't a receiver, it's value is in it's ability to integrate audio in and out of the Sonos system. What that means to a person depends on their Sonos sytem and how important it is to integrate their non-Sonos system. The price is absolutely higher than I'd like it to be.

$400 x 2 = $800. Exactly, it's a fancy audio streaming box.

Why would you need 2 Ports? You can only use one port per zone. Only one is needed matched with a single non-Sonos receiver/amp.A Port is $400 which is roughly half the cost of my 7.1 Onkyo Home Theater AV Receiver. Why would I pay half the cost of what an entire high end HT AV Receiver provides for the modest and non-integrated capabilities of the Port?

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S

Shady AF

Lyricist III

Sonos would get obliterated in the AVR market right now. Sound United recently bought Onkyo/Integra and Pioneer/Elite while already owning Marantz and Denon. Sony and Yamaha are the only other mid to mid-high AVR manufacturers. Without selling a ton of units or charging way too much they couldn't afford licensing Dolby, DTS, and possibly auro-3d (along and every other tech they would need to have to compete). There is a reason a single company owns so many brands now.

The "Works With Sonos" campaign was their first attempt to partner and the new 12v trigger on the port is the new solution that will cover nearly every high end model from those and other brands. This is a good compromise in my opinion. Most network DAC/Streamers/Pre-Amps (it has one input and streaming so kinda a pre-amp) cost at least this much, on the high end you are looking at stuff like the mytek brooklyn bridge for $3000 and is considered an audiophile steal (admittedly it does allow more digital inputs).

Arcam, Anthem, and NAD prices are what Sonos would be comparable to since they are closer in size (blah blah economies of scale rant). If you notice they don't have anything below $1200 (and even at those price points the other mainstream brands are recommended most of the time).

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P

Phil60

Lyricist I

So I need a sonos amp?

Already have a sonos 5 and 4 sonos player 1 plus beam .

Also bought recently a sonos turntable though expensive sounds great and enjoy listening to my old records.

Looking to buy a good cd player .

.

Please advice

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Airgetlam

Sorry, there’s no context I can find to determine if you should buy a Sonos Amp or not. What is it you’re trying to do, that isn’t working currently?

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Bruce

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