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Enthusiast II
July 29, 2018

Sonos doesn’t really do “5.1”

Before you buy any SONOS equipment to achieve a 5.1 setup please consider this: a Denon AVRX2400 AV Amp, Elac CINEMA 5.1 speaker system, all cables professionally installed behind the walls gives you true home cinema with all the surround sound codecs you could ever want with no cables showing for way less than £1000 (see Richer Sound web site for prices). Or spend £1700 on a SONOS setup and get stereo or Dolby Digital only plus you may have to buy a new DVD player to play your UHD DVD’s, a HDMI Switch then deal with lip sync issues etc, etc.

SONOS do speakers, great speakers, but only for music. They are stealing money from people wanting 5.1 for their TV. The system I suggest costs at least £700 less, hides all the wires (what we all want) and sounds much, much better. Go mad, stick a couple of speakers in the ceiling and get real Dolby Atmos for £150 more and still save yourself £550. I have begged SONOS to tell me if they are developing a surround sound product with HDMI and more choice of listening eg DTS, Dolby X etc but they point blank refuse to discuss future products stating they are catering for the “modern listener”. That put me in my place. SONOS remind me of great companies who made world class products like Blackberry, Blockbuster, Compaq and SAAB, just a minute, they all went out of business because they didn’t produce what their customers wanted at a competitive price (no pedants please, I know there were other factors which meant these companies went bust, I am just illustrating a point). Are SONOS going down the same route? Think about it while you are watching your new laser disc.

I would be interested to hear any arguments against my proposed SONOS alternative system.
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150 replies

melvimbe
December 31, 2018


What I want more than anything is for SONOS to give me the beautiful sounding system that gives me 5.1, proper 5.1 not limited to DD.


Your instance on redefining what "5.1" means is not helping your cause any. It does not mean that Sonos, or any other vendor, needs to support every commercial codec that operates under 5.1 You actually have a good point underneath that, that Sonos doesn't cover all popular codecs and that it would make a better product and better for consumers if it did. I don't think anyone could really argue against that.


It is hardly beyond their technical abilities.


We don't really know that for sure. Since it's not a matter of meeting consumer needs, it must either be a cost or a technical issue.


I hate having a wired system and I don’t have Atomos or 7.1 or any vinyl or any HiFi separates does that mean I have to compromise on my film and TV watching. I have said throughout this thread that if the SONOS system rocks your boat then great and there is no doubt that covers many SONOS users. I have also invested heavily in SONOS for music and I am perfectly happy with it so I am not knocking the brand. They did however promise me 5.1, look at the ads, the still do it, and I maintain they don’t deliver and I think that is a great pity as this would be the Holly Grail of TV for me.


Again, you'd be better off if you stopped trying to redefine words. Completely unnecessary to your argument. A/V receivers have been supporting every possible codec they could since surround sound first came out, so it's not at all surprising for consumers to assume Sonos would as well. There is a clear gap between what consumers typically watch (including blu-rays) and what Sonos supports. Enough said right there.

Sonos isn't wrong for saying it's 5.1, because it is. I don't blame Sonos for advertising all the things it's not, because negativity in advertising doesn't sell products. I personally don't need DTS, but I do have disappointment in Sonos for not supporting it. And I leave at just that, disappointment. Not the only thing I'm disappointed about, but I still like their products much better than the competition's for my needs.


As for Apple changing to DD? They may, but not because of SONOS. Companies like SONOS need to follow Apple’s lead not the other way about.


Eh, I disagree on this. Sonos is what it is today because they didn't follow someone else's lead. They shouldn't start now. I also think that Apple (and others) has resources to do quite a few things that Sonos cannot (completely unfair, but another topic) and thus they need to make different decisions. And lastly, the idea of tech world where the little guys just follow the giants is not very pleasing to me. I've never really seen it as a good thing when a these giant companies are able the dictate the market by their sheer weight. All that's a matter of opinion though.
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Danny
djsgrantAuthor
Enthusiast II
December 31, 2018
In what way are you not getting 5.1 as promised? Dolby Digital 5.1 is 5.1. Sonos plays it. End of story.

OMG, if you are going to comment please read the thread. I can’t stream Netflix etc as there is no fast broadband in my area. My media is therefore mainly DVD nearly all of which are mostly DTS so I get stereo only. That is why I don’t get 5.1 as promised.

It would also improve the thread if you were a little less supercilious, everybody’s opinion is equally important and as this thread is about users opinions there is no definitive answer. Driver28 is happy with his setup, I required something different so comments such as “end of story” are uncalled for.
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David
jgatie
December 31, 2018
In what way are you not getting 5.1 as promised? Dolby Digital 5.1 is 5.1. Sonos plays it. End of story.

OMG, if you are going to comment please read the thread. I can’t stream Netflix etc as there is no fast broadband in my area. My media is therefore mainly DVD nearly all of which are mostly DTS so I get stereo only. That is why I don’t get 5.1 as promised.

It would also improve the thread if you were a little less supercilious, everybody’s opinion is equally important and as this thread is about users opinions there is no definitive answer. Driver28 is happy with his setup, I required something different so comments such as “end of story” are uncalled for.


Who promised you 5.1 in the form of DTS ?

I have read the thread. Maybe you should also, because your notion that "Sonos don’t 'really' do 5.1" was debunked on page 1. Nothing you have said since changes that fact.

And as to "everybody’s opinion is equally important", that would be fine if you were offering opinion. You stated as fact that Sonos promised you 5.1 and you didn't get it. That is not an opinion, and it is most certainly untrue. You were not promised 5.1 in the form of DTS. You were promised DD 5.1, and you got it.

Oh and by the way:

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UBD-M7500-ZA-Blu-Ray-Player/dp/B075QSCLRZ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1546277860&sr=8-3&keywords=samsung+UHD+player

Samsung UBD-M7500/ZA 4K UHD Blu-Ray Player - No HDMI Cable Included

Plays DVD, Blu-Ray, and UHD Blu-Ray. Converts DTS to DD 5.1. Problem solved.

You are welcome!
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melvimbe
December 31, 2018
.
It would also improve the thread if you were a little less supercilious, everybody’s opinion is equally important and as this thread is about users opinions there is no definitive answer.


"DTS" and "5.1" are not the same thing. Nor does "5.1" mean "every codec that involves 6 speaker channels". That's a fact, not an opinion, so there absolutely is a definitive answer.
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Danny
Lyricist III
December 31, 2018
What i meant about Apple is that when they start upgrading movies to Atmos DD 5.1 will still be available as fallback, a selectable soundtrack for devices not supportingAtmks much like they still offer 4K movies in 1080p for compatibly. Default soundtrack IS DD 5.1 with stereo fallback now and has been for years in iTunes movies.


What I want more than anything is for SONOS to give me the beautiful sounding system that gives me 5.1, proper 5.1 not limited to DD.


Your instance on redefining what "5.1" means is not helping your cause any. It does not mean that Sonos, or any other vendor, needs to support every commercial codec that operates under 5.1 You actually have a good point underneath that, that Sonos doesn't cover all popular codecs and that it would make a better product and better for consumers if it did. I don't think anyone could really argue against that.


It is hardly beyond their technical abilities.


We don't really know that for sure. Since it's not a matter of meeting consumer needs, it must either be a cost or a technical issue.


I hate having a wired system and I don’t have Atomos or 7.1 or any vinyl or any HiFi separates does that mean I have to compromise on my film and TV watching. I have said throughout this thread that if the SONOS system rocks your boat then great and there is no doubt that covers many SONOS users. I have also invested heavily in SONOS for music and I am perfectly happy with it so I am not knocking the brand. They did however promise me 5.1, look at the ads, the still do it, and I maintain they don’t deliver and I think that is a great pity as this would be the Holly Grail of TV for me.


Again, you'd be better off if you stopped trying to redefine words. Completely unnecessary to your argument. A/V receivers have been supporting every possible codec they could since surround sound first came out, so it's not at all surprising for consumers to assume Sonos would as well. There is a clear gap between what consumers typically watch (including blu-rays) and what Sonos supports. Enough said right there.

Sonos isn't wrong for saying it's 5.1, because it is. I don't blame Sonos for advertising all the things it's not, because negativity in advertising doesn't sell products. I personally don't need DTS, but I do have disappointment in Sonos for not supporting it. And I leave at just that, disappointment. Not the only thing I'm disappointed about, but I still like their products much better than the competition's for my needs.


As for Apple changing to DD? They may, but not because of SONOS. Companies like SONOS need to follow Apple’s lead not the other way about.


Eh, I disagree on this. Sonos is what it is today because they didn't follow someone else's lead. They shouldn't start now. I also think that Apple (and others) has resources to do quite a few things that Sonos cannot (completely unfair, but another topic) and thus they need to make different decisions. And lastly, the idea of tech world where the little guys just follow the giants is not very pleasing to me. I've never really seen it as a good thing when a these giant companies are able the dictate the market by their sheer weight. All that's a matter of opinion though.
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djsgrantAuthor
Enthusiast II
January 1, 2019
What i meant about Apple is that when they start upgrading movies to Atmos DD 5.1 will still be available as fallback, a selectable soundtrack for devices not supportingAtmks much like they still offer 4K movies in 1080p for compatibly. Default soundtrack IS DD 5.1 with stereo fallback now and has been for years in iTunes movies.


What I want more than anything is for SONOS to give me the beautiful sounding system that gives me 5.1, proper 5.1 not limited to DD.


Your instance on redefining what "5.1" means is not helping your cause any. It does not mean that Sonos, or any other vendor, needs to support every commercial codec that operates under 5.1 You actually have a good point underneath that, that Sonos doesn't cover all popular codecs and that it would make a better product and better for consumers if it did. I don't think anyone could really argue against that.


It is hardly beyond their technical abilities.


We don't really know that for sure. Since it's not a matter of meeting consumer needs, it must either be a cost or a technical issue.


I hate having a wired system and I don’t have Atomos or 7.1 or any vinyl or any HiFi separates does that mean I have to compromise on my film and TV watching. I have said throughout this thread that if the SONOS system rocks your boat then great and there is no doubt that covers many SONOS users. I have also invested heavily in SONOS for music and I am perfectly happy with it so I am not knocking the brand. They did however promise me 5.1, look at the ads, the still do it, and I maintain they don’t deliver and I think that is a great pity as this would be the Holly Grail of TV for me.


Again, you'd be better off if you stopped trying to redefine words. Completely unnecessary to your argument. A/V receivers have been supporting every possible codec they could since surround sound first came out, so it's not at all surprising for consumers to assume Sonos would as well. There is a clear gap between what consumers typically watch (including blu-rays) and what Sonos supports. Enough said right there.

Sonos isn't wrong for saying it's 5.1, because it is. I don't blame Sonos for advertising all the things it's not, because negativity in advertising doesn't sell products. I personally don't need DTS, but I do have disappointment in Sonos for not supporting it. And I leave at just that, disappointment. Not the only thing I'm disappointed about, but I still like their products much better than the competition's for my needs.


As for Apple changing to DD? They may, but not because of SONOS. Companies like SONOS need to follow Apple’s lead not the other way about.


Eh, I disagree on this. Sonos is what it is today because they didn't follow someone else's lead. They shouldn't start now. I also think that Apple (and others) has resources to do quite a few things that Sonos cannot (completely unfair, but another topic) and thus they need to make different decisions. And lastly, the idea of tech world where the little guys just follow the giants is not very pleasing to me. I've never really seen it as a good thing when a these giant companies are able the dictate the market by their sheer weight. All that's a matter of opinion though.


I think you have just completely agreeded with me however you have done it in a slightly more eloquent manner. I stand by SONOS for my music listening but find their AV equipment a disappointment due to its lack of compatibility. That is my fault for not doing the research properly before purchasing the Playbase etc. By the way, the PB is the only speaker I returned, I have no issues with my other SONOS kit. You yourself state that it is a disappointment that DTS is not supported. There are arguments about what 5.1 is and isn’t on these pages. That kind of makes my point; SONOS should have just made it work out of the box for more people. Why should I spend another £200 on a DVD player, which is inferior to my existing machine, to do SONOS’ work for them. I thought less boxes, less cables is what we were after?

Let’s look at the argument another way: Can anyone please tell me why SONOS providing a soundbar/base with a HDMI that has the ability to reproduce DTS is a bad thing? I am not a lone voice on these forums asking for this.
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David
Prominent Collaborator I
January 1, 2019
maybe this changes things for the future "New Sonos Satellite Speaker Pops Up in FCC Filing"
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D33p5t3r
Collaborator II
January 2, 2019
This is quite a funny thread, that props up every few months and it always follows a familiar theme. I will also say it's quite clear from the author's history that the purpose of this thread and it's title is to get a rise out of the more ardent members on this sub-forum.

Anyhow...

Every few months we seem to have a self-confessed audiophile who despite having a wealth of knowledge about all the latest codecs somehow manages to spend thousands of dollars/pounds on new AV equipment and then gets very disappointed when they set it all up and realise they can't watch their latest Star Wars Blu-Ray out the box (eventhough lack of DTS on Sonos is a well known fact in home audio circles).

I will reiterate what I've said before in that I think Sonos does a solid (if incredibly expensive) job for standard DD 5.1 home cinema and it was clearly an afterthought for them. I'm a bit surprised they haven't managed to get the DTS issue sorted, but most people I know who have Sonos either use it exclusively for streaming, or are fine just having the audio pumped out as Stereo to blast through the Playbar.

If you want to stay in the Sonos eco-system, and are very disappointed about your DTS only Blu-Rays and don't want a "proper" AV wired setup, then there are players that will transcode on the fly and give you a near-similar experience (I assume there is a minor quality drop when the DTS is transacoded into DD5.1).

One last point which I've never been able to work out is, if the Playbar is supposed to simulate a 3.0 speaker setup, why can I not control the individual channels separately, i.e. why can't I increase the centre channel and the dialogue (the Speech Enhancement doesn't work very well in large rooms).
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Sony 55XE9305 4K TV | Sonos Beam | Sonos Amp | Apple TV (2nd Gen) | Monitor Audio CT-165 Ceiling Speakers
melvimbe
January 2, 2019

Let’s look at the argument another way: Can anyone please tell me why SONOS providing a soundbar/base with a HDMI that has the ability to reproduce DTS is a bad thing? I am not a lone voice on these forums asking for this.


Here are two reasons. First, the licensing and support costs might significantly raise the price of the products. Obviously, customers don't want that. You could argue that Sonos could be 'less greedy' eat those costs themselves, but without knowing the costs or the current profit margin, it's a mute point. Who are we to say what a fair profit margin is anyway? As well, if you're invested in Sonos, either by stocks or product purchases, it's in your best interest for Sonos to be profitable so that they can continue to support existing products as well as develop new products. Even if you don't have many Sonos products, they clearly are a good competitor in the market, which pushes the whole market forward.

The second would be that standards are most beneficial when there is only one or few standards out there. Limiting standards means customers have to worry less about whether product X works with product Y. It means manufacturers can keep costs lower if they don't need to have products handle a high volume of standards to be compatible with. As an example consider other standards like USB or Bluetooth. If there were multiple standards out there that did the same thing, this would raise the cost of any product using these standards as well as making life more complicated for the consumer. And yes, competing standard would bring innovation, but these 2 standards seem to be improving without the presence of competition.

Admittedly these aren't terribly strong reasons, particularly the last one. They are reasons though. And of course, Sonos is allowed to have their own reasons that don't have to do with customer satisfaction. There are in business for a reason after all.


If you want to stay in the Sonos eco-system, and are very disappointed about your DTS only Blu-Rays and don't want a "proper" AV wired setup, then there are players that will transcode on the fly and give you a near-similar experience (I assume there is a minor quality drop when the DTS is transacoded into DD5.1).


There is also the option of pairing a Connect with an AV receiver that does DTS.
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Danny
D33p5t3r
Collaborator II
January 2, 2019

There is also the option of pairing a Connect with an AV receiver that does DTS.


I mean, sure that is an option, but not particularly realistic or cost-effective IMO.
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Sony 55XE9305 4K TV | Sonos Beam | Sonos Amp | Apple TV (2nd Gen) | Monitor Audio CT-165 Ceiling Speakers