Sonos Arc Muddy/Bottoming out Bass

Had you tested out your previous Arc with the 12.0.1 update before returning it?  If so, and your new Arc doesn’t have the muddy bass problem, then this would point to a hardware problem--perhaps with a certain batch.  Unless the bass problem is really just being covered up by the 12.0.1 firmware.

Don’t the comments from Rtings (a few posts up) pretty much confirm that all Sonos did was “cover up” the bass issue with 12.0.1? That was my interpretation anyway.

Yes, but what I wanted to determine was whether @AndyWUK thinks that his new Arc with 12.0.1 firmware sounds better than his previous Arc with 12.0.1 firmware.

Setup my return for the Arc today. I found a Playbar locally and just going to do that until they figure this out. My hope was for a single unit for movies and music - aka no sub. I did put them side by side and the Playbar has marginally better bass than the Arc FWIW. Sound was a little warmer ish. It’s really hard to compare the Arc with anything because of the surround effects of it - the image is so wide. The Arc definitely has a lot more power and headroom, but still thuds out. Maybe they’ll get this worked out, but definitely feel burned by the entire process with Sonos. All the back and forth, waiting on hold, only to get told I’m having my case escalated, but never getting any information. It’s been 2 weeks since my first ticket and still no response from the technician I was promised. Good luck all with your Arcs. I can stomach adding a sub to the Playbar a lot more than an $800 Arc.

I dont agree with this. An user here said that but don’t take that as a fact. RTINGS said very clearly the update improved things. Not sure was “cover up” means in this case. How do you cover up an issue by improving it? The user mentioned a bandgap filter which basically blocks out a range of frequencies, yet I am not sure were they're getting this information from. Anyways that is what DSP is, a bunch of processing and this goes into all SONOS Speakers. So the hope, if theres no hardware design issue, is that the final and intended DSP tweeks are able to filter out and undesired frequency response to flatten it out. 

In the plots I shared, this can be seen perfectly. The goal would be a flatter sound that doesn’t deviate from ideal performance, we know this is not possible or even a thing on any soundbar though. For example look at the Q90R samsung soundbar comparison. Now this is not a fair comparison because this shows performance with a subwoofer which will pereform much better in the lower freqs. I suspect the arc with the Sub look as good if not better than this red line (they haven’t tested it yet). Q90R comes with sub but it is pricier as well (not as pricey as sonos whole 5.1 system though)

Anyways there is clearly something weird going on in the 40 - 50 Hz range with the Arc (without a sub) it was improved with the update but still looks off.

That being said, the issues show up at MAX SPL which means max volume level, there is distortion. Most people, including me, wont really push the sound past 70% or so so they might not even experience these issues. However, we certainly expect more out of SONOS engineering. This is not acceptable, competitors or even other SONOS products can perform better at high volume. So that is where we set the bar for this new SONOS flagship

Had you tested out your previous Arc with the 12.0.1 update before returning it?  If so, and your new Arc doesn’t have the muddy bass problem, then this would point to a hardware problem--perhaps with a certain batch.  Unless the bass problem is really just being covered up by the 12.0.1 firmware.

 

Don’t the comments from Rtings (a few posts up) pretty much confirm that all Sonos did was “cover up” the bass issue with 12.0.1? That was my interpretation anyway.

I dont agree with this. An user here said that but don’t take that as a fact. RTINGS said very clearly the update improved things. Not sure was “cover up” means in this case. How do you cover up an issue by improving it? The user mentioned a bandgap filter which basically blocks out a range of frequencies, yet I am not sure were they're getting this information from. Anyways that is what DSP is, a bunch of processing and this goes into all SONOS Speakers. So the hope, if theres no hardware design issue, is that the final and intended DSP tweeks are able to filter out and undesired frequency response to flatten it out. 

 

In the plots I shared, this can be seen perfectly. The goal would be a flatter sound that doesn’t deviate from ideal performance, we know this is not possible or even a thing on any soundbar though. For example look at the Q90R samsung soundbar comparison. Now this is not a fair comparison because this shows performance with a subwoofer which will pereform much better in the lower freqs. I suspect the arc with the Sub look as good if not better than this red line (they haven’t tested it yet). Q90R comes with sub but it is pricier as well (not as pricey as sonos whole 5.1 system though)

Anyways there is clearly something weird going on in the 40 - 50 Hz range with the Arc (without a sub) it was improved with the update but still looks off.

That being said, the issues show up at MAX SPL which means max volume level, there is distortion. Most people, including me, wont really push the sound past 70% or so so they might not even experience these issues. However, we certainly expect more out of SONOS engineering. This is not acceptable, competitors or even other SONOS products can perform better at high volume. So that is where we set the bar for this new SONOS flagship

Q90R with sub and surround is $999, while the Sonos 5.1 setup is double the cost. Q90R also has 2 4k pass-through ports and supports all sound formats. It does not need any more software updates to make it future proof cause it already is (with eARC). It only lacks airplay 2, but who will play an extra $900 to get that functionality? People argue that Sonos has long term software support, but those updates will only make up for the feature gap between Q90R and Arc. Plus no software update can fix the lack of ports.

“Q90R with sub and surround is $999,...”

Q90R’s surround speakers also include up-firing drivers which might increase the Atmos affect.  I’m hoping Sonos comes out with something like this eventually. Once they’ve addressed all the Arc problems of course...

And you are not dependant on the modern tv to get the atmos sound.

Hello Jordan, l too had the same experience with the Arc. I took mine back to the shop and exchanged for a beam. I find the beam better and at half the price. I still detect harshness/bright dialogue in the sound,bot certainly no worse than the Arc! I think a lot of it has to do with the tuning,but it shouldn’t. Maybe bright sound is inherent in Sonos products.

The Arc has up-firing drivers already.  Not sure what the point of comparison is here...