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Headphone Linking, TV Audio Swap, and app control for Ace Ultra

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I have a few questions regarding how Headphone Linking, TV Audio Swap, and app control are going to work for Ace Ultra in a couple different situations.

Say you have a Sonos System with the following rooms setup.

Room 1 - Arc Ultra

Room 2 - Era 100

Room 3 - Era 300

Room 4 - Ace Ultra

Scenario 1 -

Action - Room 1 is playing TV Audio. While in room 1, with the Ace Ultra, press (hold) the content key to transfer TV audio to the Ace Ultra. Audio stops on Room 1 and plays on the Ace Ultra. Press the content key again while still in room 1.

Result - Audio stops on Ace Ultra and returns to room 1. Standard TV Swap scenario.

Scenario 2 -

Action - Room 1 is playing TV Audio. While in room 1, with the Ace Ultra, press (hold) the content key to transfer TV audio to the Ace Ultra. Audio stops on Room 1 and plays on the Ace Ultra. Move to room 2 and press the content key.

Result - Audio stops on Ace Ultra and returns to room 1? (or does TV audio transfer to room 2?)

Scenario 3 -

Action - Room 1 is playing music. While in room 1, with the Ace Ultra, press (hold) the content key to transfer music to the Ace Ultra. Audio stops on Room 1 and plays on the Ace Ultra. Move to room 2 and press the content key

Result - Audio stops on Ace Ultra and plays on room 2 ? (this is a headphone linking scenario, not TV audio swap?)

Scenario 4 -

Action - Room 2 is playing music. While in room 2, with the Ace Ultra, press (hold) the content key to transfer music to the Ace Ultra. Audio stops on Room 2 and plays on the Ace Ultra. Move to room 1 and press the content key.

Result - Audio stops on Ace Ultra and plays on room 2 ? (this is a headphone linking scenario, not TV audio swap?)

Scenario 5 -

Action - Room 2 is playing music. While in room 2, with the Ace Ultra, press (hold) the content key to transfer music to the Ace Ultra. Audio stops on Room 2 and plays on the Ace Ultra. Move to room 3 and press the content key.

Result - Audio stops on Ace Ultra and plays on room 3...standard headphone linking scenario.

Scenario 6 -

Action - Room 1 is playing music. Using the Sonos App, group room 1 and room 4.

Result - Audio plays on both room 1 and room 4 in sync. Standard grouping scenario?

Scenario 7 -

Action - Room 1 is playing TV Audio. Using the Sonos App, group room 1 and room 4.

Result - Audio plays on both room 1 and room 4, with room 4 slightly delayed? Standard grouping scenario with the delay for TV audio?

Scenario 6 -

Action - No audio is playing in your system. Using the Sonos App, initiate music playback on room 4.

Result - Music plays on room 4?

edit: Fixed grammar

Corry PAnswer

Sonos Staff

OK, I have a few answers for you all. Some of the questions may have originated from different Community threads, but I think it best to have the answers here all together.

Will Ace Ultra show as a room in the Sonos app?
Only while Linked to a compatible speaker.
In addition, it will count towards the 32-device limit - if you already have 32 Sonos devices and try to Link Ace Ultra to one of them, the Link will likely fail.

Can it play independently via the app, or does content need to be on a speaker first?
Content must come from a speaker first when the Content Key (the slider button on the headphones) is used - Ace Ultra cannot be targeted by the Sonos app in the way that, say, a Roam, Play or any other Sonos player, can. Should the Linked speaker be turned off or disconnected, playback on Ace Ultra will cease - the headphones are not an independent playback endpoint.

Content can be played to Ace Ultra via the Sonos app without being played on a speaker first, but the Link must be made with a compatible speaker before Ace Ultra will show in the app. This does mean playback can be initiated silently (without disturbing anyone else in the house - the Link is made, then the content is chosen from the Sonos app and started, all without anyone else hearing anything).

If the audio is pulled from an active group of speakers using the Content Key or the Sonos app, that group will be disbanded. Other types of bonded/paired rooms/zones will remain as they were. Disbanded groups will not be re-grouped when the content is pushed back to a speaker using the Content Key on the headphones - indeed, the content might not even go back to a speaker that was in the group initially. The Sonos app can be used instead of the Content Key when pushing content back to a speaker, in which case the user has control over the destination, and can regroup the speakers from there.

The content that is playing on Ace Ultra from a Linked speaker can be changed in the Sonos app without affecting the Link.

Do older/incompatible speakers work, or does the currently playing speaker itself need to be compatible?
The currently playing (Linked-to) speaker must be on Sonos’ compatibility list when the Content Key is used, it is not enough for a compatible speaker to merely be present somewhere else on the system. Due to the ultrasonic pulses and proximity detection used, older players such as Play:5 Gen 2 cannot be Linked with Ace Ultra.

The Output Picker in the Sonos app can be used to redirect playback from an incompatible speaker, as long as there is a compatible speaker Linked in the system.

Compatibility list caveat:
Thanks to the input of our Sonos Community members, the discrepancies between some of the sales and support pages regarding which speakers are compatible have been corrected. Beam Gen 1/2, Amp, Arc, Arc SL, Arc Ultra, Five, Roam/Roam SL/Roam 2, Move 2, Ray, Era 100/100 Pro/100 SL, Era 300, Sonos Play & Beam Ultra are all compatible (unless configured as surrounds, but if they are, there is likely a compatible soundbar there in the room anyway, though the Sonos Fabric will prefer to use other available Linking hosts first).

Playing TV Audio from a Grouped speaker?
No - you will hear an error tone. If you want TV audio playing on Ace Ultra, the way to do it is with TV Audio Swap (identical to how Ace works), which is a separate feature. Besides, a grouped speaker will leave the group when Linked to Ace Ultra, so it would no longer be playing that TV source from the moment of Linking anyway.

I hope this helps!

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

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Stanley_4

Grand Maestro

But I still want to know about Linking to a Grouped speaker connected to a HT Room playing TV audio.

Say, as an example:

I have my Arc Ultra Room Grouped to my Play 5 gen 2 Room, both playing TV sound.
I want to listen to the TV audio in my garage, that is out of range of the Swap option, but has good Wi-Fi coverage.
I Link to the Grouped Play 5 Room that is already playing the TV audio to my Ace Ultras.
Can I then hear the TV sound on the Ace when I take them to the garage?

That solves an issue that I actually have here today with my Ace headphones.

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Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @melvimbe et al

I have asked for clarification on some of these points, but it seems answers are a little slow in coming back - I’ll update this thread when I hear more.

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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

Corry PAnswer

Sonos Staff

OK, I have a few answers for you all. Some of the questions may have originated from different Community threads, but I think it best to have the answers here all together.

Will Ace Ultra show as a room in the Sonos app?
Only while Linked to a compatible speaker.
In addition, it will count towards the 32-device limit - if you already have 32 Sonos devices and try to Link Ace Ultra to one of them, the Link will likely fail.

Can it play independently via the app, or does content need to be on a speaker first?
Content must come from a speaker first when the Content Key (the slider button on the headphones) is used - Ace Ultra cannot be targeted by the Sonos app in the way that, say, a Roam, Play or any other Sonos player, can. Should the Linked speaker be turned off or disconnected, playback on Ace Ultra will cease - the headphones are not an independent playback endpoint.

Content can be played to Ace Ultra via the Sonos app without being played on a speaker first, but the Link must be made with a compatible speaker before Ace Ultra will show in the app. This does mean playback can be initiated silently (without disturbing anyone else in the house - the Link is made, then the content is chosen from the Sonos app and started, all without anyone else hearing anything).

If the audio is pulled from an active group of speakers using the Content Key or the Sonos app, that group will be disbanded. Other types of bonded/paired rooms/zones will remain as they were. Disbanded groups will not be re-grouped when the content is pushed back to a speaker using the Content Key on the headphones - indeed, the content might not even go back to a speaker that was in the group initially. The Sonos app can be used instead of the Content Key when pushing content back to a speaker, in which case the user has control over the destination, and can regroup the speakers from there.

The content that is playing on Ace Ultra from a Linked speaker can be changed in the Sonos app without affecting the Link.

Do older/incompatible speakers work, or does the currently playing speaker itself need to be compatible?
The currently playing (Linked-to) speaker must be on Sonos’ compatibility list when the Content Key is used, it is not enough for a compatible speaker to merely be present somewhere else on the system. Due to the ultrasonic pulses and proximity detection used, older players such as Play:5 Gen 2 cannot be Linked with Ace Ultra.

The Output Picker in the Sonos app can be used to redirect playback from an incompatible speaker, as long as there is a compatible speaker Linked in the system.

Compatibility list caveat:
Thanks to the input of our Sonos Community members, the discrepancies between some of the sales and support pages regarding which speakers are compatible have been corrected. Beam Gen 1/2, Amp, Arc, Arc SL, Arc Ultra, Five, Roam/Roam SL/Roam 2, Move 2, Ray, Era 100/100 Pro/100 SL, Era 300, Sonos Play & Beam Ultra are all compatible (unless configured as surrounds, but if they are, there is likely a compatible soundbar there in the room anyway, though the Sonos Fabric will prefer to use other available Linking hosts first).

Playing TV Audio from a Grouped speaker?
No - you will hear an error tone. If you want TV audio playing on Ace Ultra, the way to do it is with TV Audio Swap (identical to how Ace works), which is a separate feature. Besides, a grouped speaker will leave the group when Linked to Ace Ultra, so it would no longer be playing that TV source from the moment of Linking anyway.

I hope this helps!

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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

SarahN

Local Superstar

@Corry P - that’s great - many thanks.

Just one quick question although I think I do understand it correct from your post. Using Ace Ultra, if I were to want to play a record on my turntable which is linked to my Five speakers, which are also bonded with a Sub Gen 3, I can initiate this via the app and the Sub can stay bonded yeah?

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Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆

Corry P

Sonos Staff

HI @SarahN

Yes - as I understand it, that would be no issue at all. Only groups are affected by Linking, and Line-In is a viable source for Ace Ultra.

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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

SarahN

Local Superstar

HI @SarahN

Yes - as I understand it, that would be no issue at all. Only groups are affected by Linking, and Line-In is a viable source for Ace Ultra.

Fantastic - thanks @Corry P

Super excited now to receive my Sand coloured Ace Ultra headphones. My previous Ace headphones are now owned by a chap who bought them off me via eBay and he’s extremely happy with them which is great!

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Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆

melvimbeAuthor

If the audio is pulled from an active group of speakers using the Content Key or the Sonos app, that group will be disbanded. Other types of bonded/paired rooms/zones will remain as they were. Disbanded groups will not be re-grouped when the content is pushed back to a speaker using the Content Key on the headphones - indeed, the content might not even go back to a speaker that was in the group initially. The Sonos app can be used instead of the Content Key when pushing content back to a speaker, in which case the user has control over the destination, and can regroup the speakers from there.

Based on this statement above, it seems that the Ace Ultra cannot be a part of a group in any scenario. You stated that establishing the link to a room will disband the group the room belonged to, so Ace Ultra is obviously not a part of a group that way. You also stated that rooms can regroup after content is pushed back from the Ace Ultra to a room. You didn’t say that Ace Ultra can be grouped with other speakers while it’s linked.

I can see why that’s not really an important use case for a lot of people, but like is the case for TV swap feature, people will want to listen to headphones while others are listening to the same content on speakers.

It also makes me wonder how external control of Ace Ultra (via the API, mcp, 3rd party apps) will handle requests to group with the Ace Ultra.

I hope this helps!

Thank you.

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Danny

AjTrek1

Hmmm….this is what I’m understanding form @Corry P’s comments which are my uninformed (or yet to be tested ) thoughts as well:

The Ace Ultra cannot be configured as a room the same as with a Sonos speaker
The Ace Ultra becomes a pseudo-room (or room if you prefer) when it pulls content from a speaker. It also affects the 32 max units limit
The Ace Ultra pulling content from a speaker within a group effectively causes the group to disband. Which would logically stop the music on the other speakers (I guess 🤔)
A group affected by #3 remains disbanded even after content is released by the Ace Ultra to another speaker or being powered down
It’s unknown (as I interpret @Corry P ‘s comment) that when releasing content back (due to the actions caused by the Arc Ultra in #3) it may or may not send the audio to the original speaker in the group from which it was taken
The Sonos App (referencing a broken group) gives the user more latitude to direct where the audio will go upon release versus using the Content Key (i.e. a designated speaker). At that point the user can reassemble the group.

The following comment is my opinion and not that of @Corry P and posses a lot of what if’s

As the Ace Ultra is not a room; in the normal sense of Sonos-speak, it cannot be grouped with other speakers. That makes sense to me because why would a user send content to the Ace Ultra and then want to group with other speakers. The only remote possibility I can see for such a use case is that the user of the Ace Ultra is outside the home (still in Wi-Fi range) and wants others inside to enjoy the same content. Now that’s a stretch 🤔

So if @Corry P wants to chime-in again...that’s very much appreciated 😊

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Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @melvimbe

Based on this statement above, it seems that the Ace Ultra cannot be a part of a group in any scenario. You stated that establishing the link to a room will disband the group the room belonged to, so Ace Ultra is obviously not a part of a group that way. You also stated that rooms can regroup after content is pushed back from the Ace Ultra to a room.

Correct, though the last part must be done manually in the Sonos app.

You didn’t say that Ace Ultra can be grouped with other speakers while it’s linked.

I didn’t, and it wasn’t explicitly stated in the information I was given, but that’s the impression I’m under.

I can see why that’s not really an important use case for a lot of people, but like is the case for TV swap feature, people will want to listen to headphones while others are listening to the same content on speakers.

I presume market research has been done on this, but I know nothing of it, or the results. Maybe it’s just not currently technically viable.

It also makes me wonder how external control of Ace Ultra (via the API, mcp, 3rd party apps) will handle requests to group with the Ace Ultra.

I would assume it would fail, but again, it was not explicitly stated.

I hope this helps!

Thank you.

You’re very welcome!

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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @AjTrek1

Hmmm….this is what I’m understanding form @Corry P’s comments which are my uninformed (or yet to be tested ) thoughts as well:

The Ace Ultra cannot be configured as a room the same as with a Sonos speaker
The Ace Ultra becomes a pseudo-room (or room if you prefer) when it pulls content from a speaker. It also affects the 32 max units limit
The Ace Ultra pulling content from a speaker within a group effectively causes the group to disband. Which would logically stop the music on the other speakers (I guess 🤔)
A group affected by #3 remains disbanded even after content is released by the Ace Ultra to another speaker or being powered down
It’s unknown (as I interpret @Corry P ‘s comment) that when releasing content back (due to the actions caused by the Arc Ultra in #3) it may or may not send the audio to the original speaker in the group from which it was taken
The Sonos App (referencing a broken group) gives the user more latitude to direct where the audio will go upon release versus using the Content Key (i.e. a designated speaker). At that point the user can reassemble the group.

Correct.
Correct.
Correct - I think it’s assumed that when headphones get involved, silence is wanted elsewhere.
Correct.
I presume you meant “Ace Ultra”? It depends on the Sonos Fabric and determined positioning, and the method used; the use of the Content Key will send the audio to the nearest compatible speaker, whereas the use of the Sonos app can send it anywhere.
Yes. No mention was made of the Group Coordinator, so perhaps behaviour will differ if the host of the Link is the GC, or not. I don’t know.

The following comment is my opinion and not that of @Corry P an posses a lot of what if’s

As the Ace Ultra is not a room; in the normal sense of Sonos-speak, it cannot be grouped with other speakers. That makes sense to me because why would a user send content to the Ace Ultra and then want to group with other speakers. The only remote possibility I can see for such a use case is that the user of the Ace Ultra is outside the home (still in Wi-Fi range) and wants others inside to enjoy the same content. Now that’s a stretch 🤔

So if @Corry P wants to chime-in again...that’s very much appreciated 😊

A Portable would make more sense in that scenario, I think. Perhaps those with hearing difficulties would want to be able to crank the volume on headphones without having playback being too loud for others listening to the same content while in the same room, but maybe a hearing aid would be recommended in such situations? I haven’t heard anything along these lines.

I hope this helps.

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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

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