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Ace TV Audio Swap for Amp, Playbar, and Playbase

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I have seen that the Sonos Ace headphones will have TV Audio Swap at launch for the Arc and will have updates to add that same functionality for the Beam Gen 1 and 2 and the Ray. Is there any reason that the Amp, Playbar, and Playbase would be excluded from that functionality? I’d understand if it was about Dolby Atmos and limited to just the Arc soundbar, but with the Beam and Ray soundbars not being true Dolby Atmos either, I’m wondering if the Amp, Playbar, and Playbase would also be considered for future functionality.

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Corry PAnswer

Sonos Staff

Hi @lathamspeas

The older components are already pegged at close to their full capacity - they are simply incapable of doing the extra work that supporting Ace would require. Parts of the process are proprietary, so I can’t go into a lot of detail, but the soundbar involved is responsible for downmixing to binaural stereo while also encoding for virtual surround, and then arranging the spatial head-tracking adjustments too. It’s all very processor intensive - although Ray is smaller and cheaper than Playbar was, a decade is a long time in computing power advancement versus cost. Ray was also developed at the same time as Ace, so it makes sense that they were planned for one another.

I hope this helps.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

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Corry PAnswer

Sonos Staff

Hi @lathamspeas

The older components are already pegged at close to their full capacity - they are simply incapable of doing the extra work that supporting Ace would require. Parts of the process are proprietary, so I can’t go into a lot of detail, but the soundbar involved is responsible for downmixing to binaural stereo while also encoding for virtual surround, and then arranging the spatial head-tracking adjustments too. It’s all very processor intensive - although Ray is smaller and cheaper than Playbar was, a decade is a long time in computing power advancement versus cost. Ray was also developed at the same time as Ace, so it makes sense that they were planned for one another.

I hope this helps.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

Bumper

Hi @lathamspeas

The older components are already pegged at close to their full capacity - they are simply incapable of doing the extra work that supporting Ace would require. Parts of the process are proprietary, so I can’t go into a lot of detail, but the soundbar involved is responsible for downmixing to binaural stereo while also encoding for virtual surround, and then arranging the spatial head-tracking adjustments too. It’s all very processor intensive - although Ray is smaller and cheaper than Playbar was, a decade is a long time in computing power advancement versus cost. Ray was also developed at the same time as Ace, so it makes sense that they were planned for one another.

I hope this helps.

But the Amp is current and still sold. Audio Swap will work with Beam Gen 1 (released 2017). Why not the amp (released 2018)? Is the amp at capacity?

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @Bumper

To be honest, I don’t know. It hadn’t occurred to me that first gen Beam was older than Amp! Amp is the oldest design we still sell, however. Perhaps it was just given less compute to begin with - possibly because there is no voice support?

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

buzz

Grand Maestro

Many users will want to play surround in the main room and add ACE for a hard of hearing house member. This would involve processing two additional channels plus responding to setup and operational commands. Assuming that onboard processor resources were kept to the minimum required for the design goal and selling price, there is probably not enough extra capacity to support adding additional channels for ACE.

It can be disheartening when you realize that your just completed design, not yet in production, is already obsolete compared to a design under development elsewhere and will follow your design into the marketplace in a few months. Of course, you could then eclipse that design very soon using yet to be released faster, cheaper components.

You face a similar dilemma as a purchaser. Knowing that “new improved” is only a few months away, should you wait? But, in a few months that “new improved” will probably on the road to obsolete before you purchase it.

At some point you and the manufacturer need to make a commitment, else the manufacturer does not have a business and you will never purchase a product.

melvimbe

Many users will want to play surround in the main room and add ACE for a hard of hearing house member. This would involve processing two additional channels plus responding to setup and operational commands. Assuming that onboard processor resources were kept to the minimum required for the design goal and selling price, there is probably not enough extra capacity to support adding additional channels for ACE.

Unless the feature changes, the Arc will be silent while it’s sending audio to the Arc. It’s not sending processing it’s own audio or sending audio to subs or surrounds. Perhaps it’s a matter of memory resources, since it would need to know how to do all these things, regardless of whether they need to be done simultaneously or not.

It can be disheartening when you realize that your just completed design, not yet in production, is already obsolete compared to a design under development elsewhere and will follow your design into the marketplace in a few months. Of course, you could then eclipse that design very soon using yet to be released faster, cheaper components.

You face a similar dilemma as a purchaser. Knowing that “new improved” is only a few months away, should you wait? But, in a few months that “new improved” will probably on the road to obsolete before you purchase it.

At some point you and the manufacturer need to make a commitment, else the manufacturer does not have a business and you will never purchase a product.

Or...you could get very good at selling your “no longer bleeding edge” speakers on the used market while you always get the latest and greatest on release day. Some of users on here seem to have gotten pretty good results with that strategy.

Danny

V

Vincent0

Lyricist III

I can sort of understand that the Amp might not be capable. But it's extra frustrating because it's still available and there is no Ace compatible alternative. For soundbars there are options that are Ace compatible, but for Amp there isn't. Or can we expect a new Amp with Ace support anytime soon?

(I've bought a Amp setup which isn't even delivered yet and was really looking forward to adding a Sonos compatible headphone to the setup)

Bumper

Hi @Bumper

To be honest, I don’t know. It hadn’t occurred to me that first gen Beam was older than Amp! Amp is the oldest design we still sell, however. Perhaps it was just given less compute to begin with - possibly because there is no voice support?

Made a mistake beam was 2018, still a couple of months earlier than Amp though.

Ray, Arc, Beam Gen2 all share the same cpu (4 core Arm8). The Amp has a 4 core Arm7. Beam Gen 1 probably has the same CPU as Amp - it would be weird if it didn’t. So probably not due to an under powered CPU but who knows I guess.

Bumper

(I've bought a Amp setup which isn't even delivered yet and was really looking forward to adding a Sonos compatible headphone to the setup)

Sonos has very long product cycles which isn’t a big deal, except the amp design is now ~6 years old which IMO Is very late in the product cycle even for Sonos. Might be better to wait for Amp Gen2.

melvimbe

(I've bought a Amp setup which isn't even delivered yet and was really looking forward to adding a Sonos compatible headphone to the setup)

Sonos has very long product cycles which isn’t a big deal, except the amp design is now ~6 years old which IMO Is very late in the product cycle even for Sonos. Might be better to wait for Amp Gen2.

It’s not unheard of for Sonos to release a Gen2 of product without changing anything other than the hardware (likely for more modern, cheaper parts) and new functionality that other speakers already have.

Danny

F

Fozziebear40

Trending Lyricist I

Oh dear. I pre-ordered the Ace and have had them a day now. I knew it was only the Arc that you can TV swap with for now, but I expected the Amp to be included in the future list. I tried the Arc but returned it as my Kef speakers and Amp have a much wider sound stage and sound better for music plus the virtual centre channel works great, vocals are clear and ‘centred’.

I only bought the Amp 6 months ago, and this won’t work with TV swap yet my Beam that is over 6 years old will. Looks like I will have to return the Ace’s ☹️

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