Enthusiast II

Answered

One simple request re the new Sonos app

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It’s my understanding that Sonos staff ‘moderates’ this forum. Hopefully that also means what we say here will likely reach the attention of Sonos management and technical personnel.

With that in mind, I have one straightforward request, conveyed on behalf of myself and other Sonos users who do not wish to be swept up in the ongoing development of the ‘new’ Sonos controller app: tell us when you’re done.

The app has been a work in progress since early May. The latest information Sonos has provided indicates that a number of basic functions will not be in place until September or October. Among these are restoring easy access to our pre-existing Sonos playlists, including the ability to retrieve and play them; along with the ability to create and save new Sonos playlists, and to subsequently edit and resave those Sonos playlists.

I have stopped downloading the ‘updates’ Sonos has been releasing every so often — because none of them seems to address Sonos playlists, which is the most important aspect of the Sonos app for me. I’ve also seen lots of posts that indicate each new update introduces new bugs and error messages, none of which I’m inclined to have to spend time trying to work around.

So please, Sonos: When you have reached the point that you can say ‘our new Sonos app for iOS and Android is in its final form and is fully operational,’ send all of us an email to let us know, just as you keep sending us email to announce new products you’d like us to buy.

Until that time, I do not intend to download incomplete, unpredictable and flawed, interim versions of the app. I did not ask or agree to be part of the Sonos software development process and do not intend to do so now.

I do now have the ability to play music using my Sonos speakers (all seven of them) with the help of a third party app, although functionality is quite limited. I will proceed using the version of the app and ‘firmware’ I have now and will block further updates until such time as Sonos notifies me the new, ‘ground up’ rebuild is complete and ready to be used without the likelihood of failure.

Hopefully things will return to normal in the near future. Please give us a clear and candid message when that time comes so we will know we can download an app and ‘firmware’ that includes all the functions Sonos intends to provide to Sonos users; and that will not be likely to fail.

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AirgetlamAnswer

I don’t understand what is meant by ‘done’. Sonos has been releasing software updates periodically since the beginning, both with new features, and fixing bugs.

For many, by what I interpret your request, the app is already ‘done’. For others, it isn’t, and will never be, since their desire is for features that Sonos is unable to provide, features that are still in process and not yet complete, or features Sonos chooses not to include, for whatever reason. The challenge is, where do you draw the line in the sand? Your conception of done will likely be different than many others.

Bruce

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Stanley_4

Grand Maestro

Never updating is an option, unless you really need something only available in the new release it is a good plan. One issue with that is if a controller updates accidentally or a friend with WiFi access and a new controller active visits.

I also get near daily criticism of my decision to update and kill the spouse's CR-100s. Almost as often my "upgrade" to speakers with no real buttons comes up.

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Rhonny

Prodigy III

Going back to the original point, isn’t this entire thread solved by the earlier point I made that when you see the update that includes the functionality you want (in this case playlist management), and provided there are no naysayers suggesting otherwise at the time, go ahead and update?

(@Antifon, there’s no ‘allegedly’ about it, I’m fortunate enough to say...)

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Antifon

Prodigy III

I also get near daily criticism of my decision to update and kill the spouse's CR-100s.

Well I guess that’s justified on her part, though I’m sure not deliberate on yours…

I think a lot of people (including me) got caught out by not realising that auto-updates for the app and auto-updates for the system are two separate things. You can turn off auto-updates in the system, and still end up with 80.x on your phone.

The really big long-term problem is a cultural one. Before this debacle, I would guess that most people would be like me: implicitly trusting of the Sonos software release process. Up until May I would religiously keep my system up to date.

I would also guess that the majority of “established” Sonos users will have made the same transition to implicitly NOT trust the Sonos update process. That won’t be easy to change. Perhaps Sonos management don’t understand this - or perhaps they do but don’t care.

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Antifon

Prodigy III

Going back to the original point, isn’t this entire thread solved by the earlier point I made that when you see the update that includes the functionality you want (in this case playlist management), and provided there are no naysayers suggesting otherwise at the time, go ahead and update?

How does that solve the problem if there is no going back? Even if “only” 1 in 100 users are having their systems trashed by the latest update, why would I risk that one percent chance, knowing that there is no way to get back to my 16.1 working system?

I think you overestimate people’s willingness to accept their system being totally screwed up, with no “Plan B”.

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chambolleAuthor

Enthusiast II

Going back to the original point, isn’t this entire thread solved by the earlier point I made that when you see the update that includes the functionality you want (in this case playlist management), and provided there are no naysayers suggesting otherwise at the time, go ahead and update?

(@Antifon, there’s no ‘allegedly’ about it, I’m fortunate enough to say...)

That would be a viable option only if we could be confident that when Sonos says an update includes feature X that (1) feature X will actually work; and (2) adding the update including feature X will not screw up features Y and Z that were already working.

Unfortunately, until now such confidence appears to be unwarranted.

Honestly. If Sonos cannot say ‘it works!’ with a reasonable degree of confidence, and it does not in fact work for the overwhelming majority of people, why would Sonos release an update at all; and why would it be unwilling to say ‘come on in, the water’s fine!’ if the update does work.

If the water’s teeming with sharks, we ought to know that before we’re encouraged to dive in. And if it isn’t, we should know that too.

I cannot comprehend why it’s unreasonable to expect a consumer product to work when it’s released; and to be forewarned when it’s defective and probably will not work for a significant number of consumers.

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Rhonny

Prodigy III

Going back to the original point, isn’t this entire thread solved by the earlier point I made that when you see the update that includes the functionality you want (in this case playlist management), and provided there are no naysayers suggesting otherwise at the time, go ahead and update?

How does that solve the problem if there is no going back? Even if “only” 1 in 100 users are having their systems trashed by the latest update, why would I risk that one percent chance, knowing that there is no way to get back to my 16.1 working system?

I think you overestimate people’s willingness to accept their system being totally screwed up, with no “Plan B”.

There will be no point at which everyone’s system works. Not everyone's system worked before the updated app, despite people seeing that as a Utopia, and it will be the same afterwards.
It’s impossible to know if the system will work upon updating - so at what point do those holding back take the plunge? If you’re not willing to risk a 1% chance then I can’t see there ever being a time you’ll update because it’s likely that at least 1% of people’s systems are not working at any one time.

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Michael.B

Enthusiast II

It’s not a simple ask at all. Your definition of “all clear” may be completely different from everyone else’s, and you can’t expect Sonos to maintain 10s of thousands of definitions of “all clear”. So they have to settle on one, and that one definition is going to piss off all the others who do not feel the same.

In addition to that, some are never going to be “all clear”, or some may take months to be “all clear” due to their particular network configuration and/or the difficulty in finding a solution. It won’t do Sonos any good to hold up the “all clear” for those 0.001% of users, because all the other users who could be having no problems at all will still be refusing to update until the “all clear” is reached.

You are working in the SW industry, right?
Then I hope you know well such basic terms as “Software Engineering Process”, “Definition of Done”, “Quality Assurance”, Quality Control“, “Release Management".
Do you think anyone in your protege Sonos have ever heard any of those? :)

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Stanley_4

Grand Maestro

There are some ways to revert to an earlier controller version, that is if you have not updated the devices to an incompatible version. I don't see a way to prevent that on Android unless you disable all auto-updates.

I do think folks are seeing the problem the S2 app has a 1.4 star Google app store rating this morning. This reputation crash has to be hurting sales and it isn't going be easily or quickly fixed.

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Michael.B

Enthusiast II

the S2 app has a 1.4 star Google app store rating this morning. This reputation crash has to be hurting sales and it isn't going be easily or quickly fixed.

I’m seeing 1.2 since long time already.

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Antifon

Prodigy III

There will be no point at which everyone’s system works. Not everyone's system worked before the updated app, despite people seeing that as a Utopia, and it will be the same afterwards.
It’s impossible to know if the system will work upon updating - so at what point do those holding back take the plunge? If you’re not willing to risk a 1% chance then I can’t see there ever being a time you’ll update because it’s likely that at least 1% of people’s systems are not working at any one time.

My point is that Sonos created this situation.

Up until May nobody - me included - worried about reversibility.

Now people like me do - it’s not tolerable that Sonos don’t provide any mechanism at all to roll back.

And please don’t present this as “problems that emerged after release”. Sonos staff have themselves admitted that significant bugs were known to be present in the initial May release, but the app auto-update went ahead anyway.

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