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Contributor I
January 5, 2023

Are we being taken for hams?

Hello to all,

I was wondering about a simple but important question: wouldn't Sonos take us for donkeys?

Let me explain:

- I had a Beam gen 1 and was quite annoyed not to be able to read the Dolby Digital + format present on many movies/series and even Netflix. For that, Sonos says you need a Beam Gen2 with E-ARC. So I bought this gen 2, and it works.

Problem -> In 2013, I had an Onkyo HT + Focal SIB, and this amp decoded all formats with a simple HDMI ARC plug.

I don't understand why you absolutely need a Beam 2 to decode DD+ for example.

Another point: I connected the beam 2 to a Fury Arcana HD box to benefit from an E-ARC output and avoid any lip sync problem.

However, when I connect the Beam 2 directly to my TV in classic HDMI ARC, it decodes very well the DD+ or even Atmos format! I don't need to connect it in E-ARC to read these formats. The ARC standard being backwards compatible, the signal transmission is done in ARC standard since my TV is flanged that way.

So we can conclude that it is only a software limitation in order to push us to buy the new models (proof is...I did it myself!)

What a sad time...

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17 replies

melvimbe
January 5, 2023

Hello to all,

I was wondering about a simple but important question: wouldn't Sonos take us for donkeys?

Let me explain:

- I had a Beam gen 1 and was quite annoyed not to be able to read the Dolby Digital + format present on many movies/series and even Netflix. For that, Sonos says you need a Beam Gen2 with E-ARC. So I bought this gen 2, and it works.

Problem -> In 2013, I had an Onkyo HT + Focal SIB, and this amp decoded all formats with a simple HDMI ARC plug.

I don't understand why you absolutely need a Beam 2 to decode DD+ for example.

 

 

Sonos has a track record of adding features to existing products through firmware updates whenever the hardware can handle the feature.  It’s possible that wasn’t the case for the Beam Gen 1, that the hardware was capable of handling DD+,  but seems unlikely.  I don’t recall whether there was discussion about this when the Gen 2 came out.  Either way, you knew the features of the Gen 1 when you bought it, there was never a promise of DD+ or anything else added later, so I don’t see how anyone was cheated out of anything.

Regardless of any of that, I seriously doubt the Gen 1 is capable of playing atmos content which is the bigger draw for Beam  Gen 2.

 

Another point: I connected the beam 2 to a Fury Arcana HD box to benefit from an E-ARC output and avoid any lip sync problem.

However, when I connect the Beam 2 directly to my TV in classic HDMI ARC, it decodes very well the DD+ or even Atmos format! I don't need to connect it in E-ARC to read these formats. The ARC standard being backwards compatible, the signal transmission is done in ARC standard since my TV is flanged that way.

So we can conclude that it is only a software limitation in order to push us to buy the new models (proof is...I did it myself!)

What a sad time...

 

Sonos has never said you need E-Arc capabilities for DD+.  It’s not even for Sonos to say since it’s an industry standard. And yes, DD+ can carry atmos signal, though DD+ compressed. Almost all streaming services use DD+, so ARC is good enough if this is your interest.  E-ARC is required for TrueHD, uncompressed, which is what you will find on blue-ray discs.

So the reasons to get an Arcana, or similar device, is because your TV isn’t ARC or eARC capable, and thus can’t provide the audio you want, or because your TV’s firmware doesn’t handle  ARC/eARC properly...resulting in lip sync issues or other problems.  A TVs main focus is video, and thus they don’t prioritize audio concerns.  The Arcana exists mainly for the audio, and thus they have to get it right.

Danny
NyvekAuthor
Contributor I
January 5, 2023

So you have to explain to me how the beam gen 1 is not technically capable of reading DD+.

jgatie
January 5, 2023

So you have to explain to me how the beam gen 1 is not technically capable of reading DD+.

 

No, you have to explain why you think it is, considering it has never been listed as being capable of DD+ since its inception. 

NyvekAuthor
Contributor I
January 5, 2023

This is just common sense. Indeed I didn't pay attention when I bought the beam 1 that it was not dd+ compatible.

But how can a technology dating from 2010 know perfectly well how to decode an audio format, and not a rather expensive sound bar in 2018, while it uses the same medium (HDMI arc)

This is simply bad faith. For me it was logical that it decodes it.

 

Beside that we come to propose us dolby atmos on a simple sound bar unable to diffuse it correctly. It's just marketing, but they'd better propose products compatible with the standards already! 

January 5, 2023

@Nyvek .  When the Beam gen 1 was designed, there would have been little advantage in DD+ capability, as Atmos was a new technology with an uncertain future.  What has changed between the two generations is the memory (RAM and storage), so that may be the reason the gen 1 cannot be upgraded to handle DD+.  Or it may not be that.  I don’t know, and neither do you.

But what I do know is that Sonos has an excellent record of NOT behaving as you suggest.  Did i need to replace my gen 2 Play:5 with a Sonos Five to get Airplay?  No, it was added as a free upgrade.  Same goes for HiRes support.  And what about DTS on soundbars?  I could give you a dozen more examples.

So i choose to believe Sonos is innocent of your accusation until proven guilty, on the grounds of previous good conduct an excellent character references.  You can choose to think them guilty as charged.  Given your cynicism and suspicion I suggest you go onto eBay and sell your Sonos gear.

NyvekAuthor
Contributor I
January 5, 2023

I don't think a 12 year old avr has a more powerful processor or more RAM.

Once again, no constructive response.

The least you can do is be transparent and say why they don't. I'm not the only one who asked the question.

Oh yes, they can't give explanations because there are none. Dolby digital + has been used for a few years now, not to mention atmos.

In short, nobody has a concrete answer.

January 5, 2023

I am not sure in what sense anything you have written is constructive.  But who cares?  Believe what you like.  The degree of suspicion and cynicism exhibited by different individuals varies greatly.  We appear to be at different ends of the spectrum.  So be it.

NyvekAuthor
Contributor I
January 5, 2023

One more thing:

I have some nice floorstanding speakers and a subwoofer. I said to myself: well, why not look at the sonos amp to connect them on it, connect my symfonisk in surround and benefit from a 4.1 sound. because it bothers me to have 2 different systems and not to be able to enjoy my Apogee in cinema.

Oh no, the sonos amp doesn't seem to decode the dd+ either.

Really a pity.

 

And for my part I do not seek to establish a constructive deception but only to expose it. But I have to deal with fan boys apparently.

Mr. T
January 5, 2023

How are you exposing any deception when the Amp’s product page clearly states the Home Cinema Audio Formats that it will play?

On the plus side, at least you done your research this time.

NyvekAuthor
Contributor I
January 5, 2023

What a disappointment? Not offering the most basic decoding! A bit like buying a car in 2023 without power steering. Except for specific cases, all cars for a large public will be equipped with it. Which is common sense.