Enthusiast I

Question

A huge step backward--what are you guys thinking?

Forum|Forum|11 years ago
August 5, 2015
280 replies
15912 views

Is the new community your idea of an improvement? It is anything but an improvement. Several important threads I started have lost content. When I try and type a response, I can't see the entire response I am creating--it only allows me to see a couple of lines at a time.

I am a long-time Sonos user, and I feel that I have been slapped in the face. Sonos no longer has my endorsement.

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J

John M

Sonos Staff

Awesome, thanks for sharing the screenshot. Very helpful. Hope you have a great weekend as well.

K

Kumar

I'd also keep in mind that we've migrated to a single, unified platform which combines all the content from both ask and the forums.
In addition to that, there was no mobile version of the forums. .

The first was a problem Sonos itself created by bringing about ask though, and if as I remember the main reason for ask has now been junked here, it sounds quite funny - and I hesitate to concede going backward as a benefit. I suppose it is one of sorts though, although outweighed by losing the much higher user friendliness of forums.
I can't comment on the mobile aspect, I don't use that route.

J

John M

Sonos Staff

I'd also keep in mind that we've migrated to a single, unified platform which combines all the content from both ask and the forums.
In addition to that, there was no mobile version of the forums. .

The first was a problem Sonos itself created by bringing about ask though, and if as I remember the main reason for ask has now been junked here, it sounds quite funny - and I hesitate to concede going backward as a benefit. I suppose it is one of sorts though, although outweighed by losing the much higher user friendliness of forums.
I can't comment on the mobile aspect, I don't use that route.

There's a bit more to the situation than how you've characterized it. One of the key reasons why ask was implemented was because there were many people who found the forums to be user unfriendly. The older look and feel, the inability to quickly find answers in threads, the separate login...there were people who found these to be barriers to using the site. We turned to ask to help bridge those gaps and compliment the forums, and it was successful in that regard.

What we're working towards with this change is a solution that satisfies both groups. We knew it was going to be hard, and acknowledge that the transition hasn't been perfect, but I'm hoping that the people in this thread will try to work with us before resorting to walking out the door. I say this sincerely and without agenda: the people on these boards have contributed to making Sonos what it is today. Please don't give up yet.

K

Kumar

I'm hoping that the people in this thread will try to work with us before resorting to walking out the door. I say this sincerely and without agenda: the people on these boards have contributed to making Sonos what it is today. Please don't give up yet.

I am sure you must have factored in some loss of expertise when you decided to make this move, and you have to hope that the loss with stay within that reckoning. In time I suppose we will see what in audio is called the burning in thing where one gets used to the new and attributes this to equipment burn in.

BarryM

You're welcome reddot and thanks for sharing a bit more about what your experience on the site is like. What's your monitor resolution? I'd expect you to see more than 1/3 of the page as being content. For example, I'm on 1680x1050 and in a browser window which is about 2/3 of my desktop, I see 2/3 of the page as text.

On a 1920x1080 screen the new forum uses about 1/3 of the screen. See attached.

You make some good points about the benefits of the combination of the two forums which I hadn't appreciated.

In addition to that, there was no mobile version of the forums. I know the mobile version has some issues now, but issues can be identified and corrected. I never found reading the forums on my smartphone to be a great experience. I managed with a lot of scrolling and pinching. There's been a huge shift since the forums were first founded and having a true mobile version is now a fundamental requirement of any site.

There still is no effective mobile platform is there?
ie. no favourites navigation method, no post editing, no "me too" voting facility, no "me to" visibility, no "link to url" facility for referring to prior posts, no "Newest first" sequencing option.

And I could repeat myself, and come up with a list of similar length for important facilities now lost from your traditional forum facility.

What we're working towards with this change is a solution that satisfies both groups. We knew it was going to be hard, and acknowledge that the transition hasn't been perfect, but I'm hoping that the people in this thread will try to work with us before resorting to walking out the door. I say this sincerely and without agenda: the people on these boards have contributed to making Sonos what it is today. Please don't give up yet.

I accept the honesty of this. What would help would be if Sonos soon summarised those shortcomings which they have accepted & are working towards repairing. This problem is that there is a lot that is now impaired due to the move. A lot of people have made a lot of complaints and suggestions. Nobody has any idea which parts you heard, which parts you accept, what importance you apply to things, nor what you intend to do about it.

If left like this it will be running sore.

I would like to see a list of accepted issues, and then some periodic reporting identifying progress, and any shift of the goals due to hurdles.

It is no good if this handled in the "ask.sonos" way; ie. an idea as marked as "Under Consideration", and then sits there growing cobwebs for 3+ years, gaining more customer votes, complaints and comments, but without update nor any further commentary from Sonos.

Neither is it any good just saying "Trust Us, we know what we are doing". Frankly, I don't think that we do. You said this that would be good and exciting. It isn't. The pleasure coming from being a part of this is evaporating. You said that workshopped this with a group of Regulars. I don't think that you did. ... Does anyone want to self-identify as being part of that process

I'm hoping that the people in this thread will try to work with us

In my view "working with us" would look something different to the usual level of conversation that Sonos enters into with its customers. In the case of the rebuilding of a community forum this would appear be a good idea, and should energise faith, patience and support. ... Are you up to it?

ratty

Do you have any ability to reduce the amount of white space that the forum pages use?

The problem of space is compounded by the very strange mix of font sizes. Why do quotes, signature lines and headings such as "2 Attachments" and "Reply" need such a large font? Other than the strangely shrunken breadcrumbs at the top, the smallest font is that of the actual post text, which is precisely where the eye is trying to focus. Zooming of course is half a solution, but that compounds the problem of low on-screen information density.

And as for the font size in the box in which I'm trying to type, things are even more of a struggle. Given the strange decision to hide the BBcodes behind a help button it's little wonder that posters are frequently messing up the quote tags, for example by failing to notice a missing bracket. It's almost as if someone designing the thing said "Bother! We forgot to make the edit pane resizeable, let's just make the text smaller". (At this point I'd add a wink smiley but they're so small I can't reliably make out which is which.) Why not at least add a preview facility, at a reasonable font size, for proof reading.

John M, I appreciate your participation in this thread but I have to agree with BarryM that a list of planned short- and medium-term fixes is pretty essential to try and head off the kind of sentiment expressed here.

Legnum Nick

Prodigy III

I bet this thread is tough reading for the new admins.

Sorry to add another negative post here, but I also am struggling a little. My suggestions for improvement would be:

1. A "New Posts" button as per every other forum I use, which lists the threads with simple information showing thread title, started by, latest post by, total number of posts/reads and an indication on if I have posted in the thread already.
2. Easier to read pages. I also am seeing far too much white - it is hard on the eyes and doesn't make me want to stay here reading for long.
3. Make it easier to find. I'm a two or three times a month user and this was my first visit since the aforementioned asteroid. It took me a while to find the right link and work out which email I needed to use to sign in. I think I used to sign in with my username?

Keep it up, I have seen IT types with major forum changes struggling under the pressure, but IMO if you are open about resolutions, then most will understand.

buzz

Grand Maestro

There are a lot of comments about large, bright white space, here is another viewpoint.

Should one live long enough, one will be developing cataracts and floaters. Large, intensely white backgrounds complicate viewing by older adults -- viewing can be outright uncomfortable. Younger eyes cannot fully appreciate this experience, but if you look through a slightly dirty or fogged window, then sharply light the fogged layer, you can begin to appreciate the visual complication caused by cataracts. I'm sure that automobile drivers have faced this situation when oncoming headlights hit a slightly fogged windshield -- whiteout!.

It's really difficult for generations to appreciate the different perception capabilities of another generation. My father had hearing damage resulting in the top few notes of a piano being mechanical thuds, there was no pitch. As a small person I could not understand how we could come to such different conclusions about an "obvious" event -- each of us feeling so strongly that the other person was, er ... WRONG! ... out of it! I was at the other end of the spectrum, "bat" would be a good description. I could hear all of the high frequency stuff that was out of reach for him, and he noticed low frequency stuff while I was distracted by the highs. Eventually, I figured out and appreciated what was going on, unfortunately he never fully made this leap.

ratty

I'm currently experimenting with Google's High Contrast extension for Chrome, with this site set to Inverted Colour. At least the unrelieved mass of white is now black.

Using AdBlock Plus, select Block Element and the (now white) top bar can also be removed. The page is then mostly white on black, and the immovable header no longer takes up excessive screen space on a 768 pixel display.

K

Kumar

White compounds the problem that all computer displays have, of aggravating the eyes. Which is why it isn't easy to sleep directly after using one, as an example.

That's where Kindle scores with its passive technology where reading it is very close to how it feel to read a book, at least from a purely visual perspective, and it doesn't interfere with the going to sleep process. While this isn't the same on an iPad, which is as aggravating as a computer.

White is tolerable on the controller where one isn't looking at it for long durations, but is terrible for long use active displays.

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