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Chasz99
Contributor I
April 16, 2020
Answered

Tidal now displays “MASTER” - does SONOS now support MQA?

I just noticed that Tidal displays “MASTER” now on MQA tracks where before it would kick down to “HIFI” - has SONAS started supporting MQA?  
 

my understanding before was that even if you were playing the master quality music, it would downgrade to hifi and this was reflected in the display.  What changed?  Audio Quality or just the display?

i have two gen 2 Play 5s with the sub in my office.  I enjoy the sound 😁

 

Thank you for any input!!!

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ratty
rattyAnswer
April 16, 2020

Sonos doesn't support MQA decode. It would make no sense to unfold lossy ultrasonics which could, if anything, damage the sound. Evidence does however suggest that Sonos is able to play the files by interpreting the top 16 bits, out of which some 13 bits evidently contain useful PCM music data. 

Where do you see the word "MASTER"? A screenshot would be useful. 

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LuvMusic
Lyricist I
May 18, 2020

Wow this is weird. It seems my direct control is HiFi now and my Airplay is Master. I have the Sonos beam, perhaps there are different symptoms for us as you have a different product, or this has a mind of its own and it is randomly going to show Master at times.

 

Even I am facing the same issue. Looks like the last update messed with this. Earlier it was exactly opposite.

Hello LuvMusic, if you have time would you mind checking out the post I linked a few comments up and let me know if you have the same issue? Seems there aren’t many Tidal-Sonos users active on here

 

Hello knopper, I am using iOS and not Android. Moreover, I am not facing either of these two issues you mentioned.

I am facing the other weird issue when using Tidal and Sonos together. “Earlier my IKEA Symfonisk was playing on MASTER (Direct play) and HiFi (Airplay). And then iPhone was playing on HiFi. This has reversed now with the latest update. Now IKEA Symfonisk plays on HiFI (Direct play) and MASTER (Airplay). And now the iPhone plays MASTER.”

 

jorgen2a
Lyricist III
May 22, 2020

Now TIDAL shows "just" hifi again for me. interesting ... and I have the same problems as others, When pause/resume TIDAL jumps to the next song.  Same problem If I do it in the Sonos app with a TIDAL stream.

Occean
Trending Lyricist I
June 8, 2020

I’ve noticed under S2 it now always shows HIFI - opposite to my expectations 

ratty
ratty
June 8, 2020

The announcement says

With S2, Sonos speakers now have support for high resolution audio, 24-bit, 44.1/48kHz for FLAC/ALAC only. This support is for local music libraries shared from computers and network attached drives.

So not online services, and definitely not the folded lossy ultrasonics in MQA.

Peder_1
Prominent Collaborator I
June 8, 2020

The new SONOS S2 update only supports 24-bit audio for local FLAC/ALAC files - no support for 24-bit streaming like TIDAL HD service etc.

wgdaquila
Contributor I
June 8, 2020

 

The new SONOS S2 update only supports 24-bit audio for local FLAC/ALAC files - no support for 24-bit streaming like TIDAL HD service etc.

 

It’s like they want me to go to B&O.

    miguelito
    Trending Lyricist I
    June 8, 2020

    I believe it is a bug in the iOS App. If you use Airplay instead of direct cast/control, it will say HiFi.

    Side note/question, because I dont see many active Tidal/Sonos users in this community, could you try my most recent question I posted about and see if it replicates? It would be a huge help.

    https://en.community.sonos.com/music-services-and-sources-228994/control-sonos-directly-from-the-tidal-app-issues-6841012?postid=16430090#post16430090

    Actually, it looks like S2 has implemented something similar to Spotify Connect or Chromecast. This is NOT Airplay, it looks legit and it is possible that the MQA stream is being used - however, to no benefit in terms of sound quality if no unfold/rendering is taking place. If there is an MQA unfold happening, an external SPDIF DAC connected to one of the digital outputs (eg the Port’s) would tell you whether there is higher resolution being outputted.

     

    If you select the SONOS speaker in the TIDAL app, it starts playing, and if you then kill the TIDAL app, it keeps playing, indicating the SONOS zone is receiving the stream directly from TIDAL - same as Spotify Connect or Chromecast. 

     

    If you look at the Qobuz app for example, this is not yet implemented so I don’t see that SONOS speaker in the list of output devices.

      ratty
      ratty
      June 8, 2020

      Actually, it looks like S2 has implemented something similar to Spotify Connect or Chromecast. This is NOT Airplay, it looks legit and it is possible that the MQA stream is being used - however, to no benefit in terms of sound quality if no unfold/rendering is taking place. If there is an MQA unfold happening, an external SPDIF DAC connected to one of the digital outputs (eg the Port’s) would tell you whether there is higher resolution being outputted.

      An external DAC would show 24-bits anyway, though it might show 16-bit when the volume is set to Fixed and the original content is 16-bit. It depends whether the DAC spots the empty lowest byte.

      In the case of online content Sonos is not supporting 24-bit at this point, so it would be truncated to 16-bit.

      Sonos does not include an MQA decoder, and I very much doubt they ever will.

      miguelito
      Trending Lyricist I
      June 8, 2020

      Actually, it looks like S2 has implemented something similar to Spotify Connect or Chromecast. This is NOT Airplay, it looks legit and it is possible that the MQA stream is being used - however, to no benefit in terms of sound quality if no unfold/rendering is taking place. If there is an MQA unfold happening, an external SPDIF DAC connected to one of the digital outputs (eg the Port’s) would tell you whether there is higher resolution being outputted.

      An external DAC would show 24-bits anyway, though it might show 16-bit when the volume is set to Fixed and the original content is 16-bit. It depends whether the DAC spots the empty lowest byte.

      In the case of online content Sonos is not supporting 24-bit at this point, so it would be truncated to 16-bit.

      Sonos does not include an MQA decoder, and I very much doubt they ever will.

      I meant the sample frequency, which in many high res MQA albums is 88 or 96 if there’s an unfold. If there’s no unfold, then we are not getting anything from MQA other than the logo. This would essentially amount, as you say, to truncating the 44/24 or 48/24 MQA streams to 44/16 or 48/16, thereby losing all of the MQA information anyway. 

       

      BTW, the unfolded MQA stream to 88 or 96 KHz really doesn’t have more than 16 bit depth. So if it were to unfold and truncate giving you 16bit and either 88 or 96 KHz out of the SPDIF out, that would be better than not unfolding.

       

      As for ever including an unfold/rendering of MQA, I am with you that it is unlikely as they would have to pay royalties to Mr Stuart.

      ratty
      ratty
      June 8, 2020

      BTW, the unfolded MQA stream to 88 or 96 KHz really doesn’t have more than 16 bit depth. So if it were to unfold and truncate giving you 16bit and either 88 or 96 KHz out of the SPDIF out, that would be better than not unfolding.

      Lossy ultrasonics which cats can hear, and which can trigger intermodulation products in the audible spectrum in downstream equipment? That doesn’t sound ‘better’ in my book. Nor the fact that if played without a decoder the resolution is evidently limited to 13 bits. 

      You might want to read up on the opinions of respected individuals in the HiFi industry who’ve shunned MQA. 

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