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Renowned Enthusiast I
May 22, 2024

Local Library Search - Some Positive Suggestions

  • May 22, 2024
  • 19 replies
  • 463 views

I have a Synology NAS with my Music Library (13.8K tracks, all FLAC, very obsessively tagged and Album Arted over about 15 happy years with Sonos) on it.  The Library contains 167 Compilation albums with some 3.6K tracks. 

Compilation albums have the Album Artist listed as Various Artists and each track has its own Artist.  Regular albums have the headline artist in both Album Artist and Contributing Artist fields, so the headline artists appear in both the Album Artist and Contributing Artist lists in the Sonos app, but artists who are only on Compilations only appear in the CA list.

It has always frustrated me that there has never been a Search facility for the CAs despite the fact that when the Library is indexed the CA list is always populated, which is indicated by the fact that, when you toggle the “View Contributing Artists” switch in the Music Library menu the CA list appears immediately without having to re-index.

I have, since the May 7 ambush, multiple versions of the Controller running as follows:-

Windows 10 PC  and Android Controllers 1-3, V16.1, build 78151030

Android Controller 4, V80.01.07-release+20240517 etc

And the Web App

For the sake of completeness, although I don’t think it is relevant to this discussion, all 6 of my speakers are on V78.1-52020.

With these three different systems running, some interesting differences have emerged which indicate that changes are being made in the code and that perhaps there is an opportunity while the big re-work is going on to influence the way the search process works.  Listing the variations may take a while, so bear with me please… I will use ABBA as an example because they appear at the top of the Artists list as I have two albums where they are the Album Artist and also some way down on the CA list as one of their tracks is on a compilation album and is tagged with them as the CA.

In V16.1 tapping on ABBA in the Artists list brings up the two Albums where they are the Album Artist, so the record is linked only to the Album Artist field in the Songs table.

In the CA list, tapping on them brings up their two albums plus the compilation album, so the Artists record in this list links to both the Album Artist and CA fields in the Songs table.  

In V80.x there is only one Artists list and no CA list.  It contains only those whose names appear in the Album Artist field of the Albums list. Tapping on ABBA brings up only their two albums, so here the Artists field is only linking to the Album Artist field in the Songs table. 

In the Web App there is only an Artists list.  However, that list contains both Album Artists and CAs and tapping on an Artist brings up all the albums on which they appear in either the Album or the Contributing Artist fields.  This is the same linkage as in the CA list in V16.1 and is a good outcome as it shows every Song attributed to the Artist although it would be nice to be able to search on it. 

The structure in V80.x is a backward step as the Artists list excludes those who only appear as CAs in Compilations; the only way to find them is to scroll through the Songs listing which does show the Artist for each track, but good luck with that when there are many thousands of tracks to scroll through.

At the moment the Search facility does not apply to the Music Library in either V80.x or the Web App, which appear to be the applications with a future.  My suggestions to the programmers who must be working towards the promised re-introduction of library search in July are:-

 

1  Have an Artists listing, as in both 16.1 and the Web App, which includes ALL artists.  Then have the option of selecting whether to show CAs as in 16.1 but don’t just disappear the CAs as in 80.x so you can’t find them anywhere except by doom-scrolling through the Songs list.

2  And this is the big one - when you re-code the Search function using the comprehensive list in 1 above, set it to match either the Contributing Artist field or the Album Artist field so you return all the Songs tagged to that Artist, compilation or not.  

 

You have all the basics for an effective Search function in the existing code, built up over the last 20-odd years of developing the Sonos controller app, but they have never quite jelled as they could have in this aspect.  When you bring back Search for local Libraries as has been promised, making these relatively minor adjustments would go a long way towards making us local library dinosaurs happy by improving our music listening experience.

Oh, and just give us our Album Art back while you’re at it!

Any thoughts on this topic from you other dinosaurs?

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19 replies

Trending Lyricist I
July 29, 2024

Similar, but not identical, setup and symptoms.

Local library stored on Synology NAS. All MP3s, obsessively tagged, about 25K tracks, 2K albums.

For the past few weeks, since the 7th May enhancements, access to my library has been erratic at best and impossible on many occasions. As of yesterday, 28th July, I find I can now reliably access and play my library from anywhere in the house.

Search works, sort of. I have many recordings (~20) of Bach's Goldberg Variations. Searching does find them but I have absolutely no way of distinguishing one from the others. The album title is too long for Sonos app to display, so they all get truncated. The search results don't scroll so that's no help. There's no album art so I can't tell from that.

Browsing is not clear in my mind yet. If I browse in Albums, the search prompt disappears (as it does in Artists etc.) I have to back out of Albums to search and then I get Artists, Albums, Composers etc who happen to fit the string. Someone like Scott Walker or Led Zeppelin who released multiple Albums using the Artist name as the Album Title is a nightmare if you can't filter the search by tag type.

Browsing Albums with Album Artist set as Various Artists is mad! Take '60 Number Ones Of The Sixties'. I have 60 separate entries in Albums for that album! Tapping on any one entry changes the display but doesn't say which Track or Artist it may be assigned to. It's just blank.

 

Oh dear. Sonos has still got a lot of repair work to do, both to the app and to customers' relationships.

 

 

jreddawayAuthor
Renowned Enthusiast I
August 12, 2024

My apologies, @Walter Eagle , I have only just caught up with this little corner of the chaotic rabbit-hole this forum has become. 

From reading your post, I would guess that you were unknowingly "upgraded" to the latest firmware on your speakers by the automatic upgrade "feature" in the app.  I'm not sure what the new Version number is but I have very carefully avoided having it installed and my speakers are on OS2 Version 79.1-54060. 

The awful multi-entry listing of albums with different Artist tags seems to be down to that upgrade and the different way the tag data in the local library is now handled. I can't bring myself to search for the relevant post, but Sonos have acknowledged that it is a problem and that they are working on it. They do not, however, have a ETA for any fix. 

I don't know whether it would appeal to you but, as a fellow obsessive tagger, you may like to try an app called BubbleUPnP which I use on Android and may also be on iOS if that's your preference. It reads from the data tables which are saved to each of your speakers when Sonos indexes your library and shows you exactly what metadata Sonos is working from for every track in your library and how it may be different to what you have in your tags. It has a very fast search facility which looks at the entire strings of whatever set of tags you are looking at and, while I have not yet got beyond having it play on the tablet I use, I am sure that with a little bit of experimentation I could get it to play on my Sonos speakers. 

This may be of academic interest to you, but at least by using it to see what the Sonos indexing process has done to your tags you may be able to understand a bit more about what's going on back there on your speakers. Oh, and if/when you do play something through BubbleUPnP your album art shows up again!

Hope this helps, and good luck

John

Trending Lyricist I
August 12, 2024

John

 

First of all thank you very much indeed for the very detailed and relevant response. It's like a model of customer service that a certain company we both know could learn from.

It hadn't actually crossed my mind that SONOS might have altered the metadata in my MP3s. Read it, yes I hope so. Interpret it correctly, essential. Add some new metadata, OK reluctantly, that's what the file space is there for. But change and overwrite the existing data?! No, no, no. I don't think that's at all acceptable.

I had assumed SONOS coders had failed to communicate with each other. One lot were working off Album Artist for sorting, and another lot were working off Track Artist. And in this case the merged code produced rubbish. So I was hoping it was simply a matter of misinterpreting metadata, rather than mangling it intentionally.

I won't have a chance to verify what's happened, or explore Bubble, for the next week or so, but I'll certainly give it some attention ASAP.

Thanks again - much appreciated.

MoPac
Headliner III
August 12, 2024

 This is not going to help with compilation albums which should be tagged as described above.  Hopefully Sonos will fix that.  Because I’m a big fan of classical music the tagging of my albums is a little more involved.  What I learned years ago was to make sure the Artist & Album Artist tags were exactly the same ( in my case the last name of the composer ).  Also when an album has, for example, two composers I make them into two albums.  So Shostakovich: Symphony No. 4 & Sibelius: Violin Concerto become two different albums with the Album names Symphony No. 4 & Violin Concerto.  So far this has worked with all software I have used.  With Sonos my compilations are messed up, but at least I have no classical compilations because of the tagging described.

Trending Lyricist I
August 12, 2024

Hi MoPac

I understand your workaround, and I'm pleased that it works for you.

But, oh dear, I could never persuade myself to use these methods. I guess that's just a measure of how inflexible I am! And, thanks to SONOS, I end up suffering as a result.

There is already a recognised MP3 tag at Track level named Composer. And that is the only place I will write the composer's name for my classical tracks. (I used the same field for composers/songwriters of jazz, blues, rock and all other genres.) The Artist tag only ever contains the artist's name - i.e. the performer. There are a few occasions in my classical files where the Composer IS the Artist (e.g. I have some tracks with Benjamin Britten playing on a recording of his own Cello Sonata) but most commonly the content of these fields is different. Does your method mean you end up with some guy called Ludwig von Beethoven listed as the Artist on his pieces? Wow! Imagine listening to Beethoven or Bach as solo Artists! Sorry, that's all wrong by me.

What happens to the actual performer if you put the composer in the Artist field? I have about 20 recordings of Bach's Goldberg Variations by different keyboard players. Using your method, how would I distinguish them if every artist ends up as Bach? Seriously, if there's another trick I'm open to learning.

Anyway, this isn't solving the problem that is SONOS. At best it's a workaround to accommodate their shortcomings. Thanks for the input - we all need to help one another from the unwieldy caricature of user unfriendly experience that this app has become.

 

MoPac
Headliner III
August 12, 2024

Walter Eagle:

 I never used the Composer tag because when I started all this local library stuff most software had no search category for Composer.  Usually I rely on the album cover or liner notes to see who the artists are.

 I used ROON for a year and spent hours putting photos of all participants who were involved in a particular composition into the ROON feature allowing that.  You can imagine the work involved for operas.  So what made this slick was the fact you could have ROON cycle through all the photos of the artists while listening.  Then the nutcakes at ROON changed the format from 16 by 9 to round.  Well I dumped them after that.

Trending Lyricist I
August 12, 2024

The whole tech world is conspiring against us!

Surely there's a market out there of people with local libraries who want to listen to their music. And they'd like software to allow them to enhance that experience, either finding and selecting the music, or to supplement the listening. Can it be that hard?

More likely, it's not that profitable. What do you bet SONOS will eventually become streaming only, for which they will charge a subscription, with zero or poor support for listeners being in possession of their own music. Actually, that's almost where we are now.

MoPac
Headliner III
August 12, 2024

 At the point where it becomes paid streaming only I’ll be done with Sonos.  I have several other options in house now.  The only reason I hang onto Sonos now is Dolby Atmos for orchestral music.  Even with Atmos via Sonos the gapless performance is not perfect, but the stage is so much bigger.

Prodigy III
August 12, 2024

It’s a shame you can’t get Sonos to use Minimserver for indexing, much more powerful. Neither Sonos or Apple seem to support tagging properly which is painful for non-standard ‘albums’. 

Like you say though, they don’t seem to care about local music, although I also don’t see why they’d care that much more about streaming as they won’t get anything from Apple/Google/Spotify etc… either, so keeping the local music crowd happy surely has to help retain people at least. 

Prodigy I
August 12, 2024

Like you say though, they don’t seem to care about local music, although I also don’t see why they’d care that much more about streaming as they won’t get anything from Apple/Google/Spotify etc… either, so keeping the local music crowd happy surely has to help retain people at least. 

What they get from supporting streaming from Apple/Google/Spotify is access to the vast majority of consumers who use streaming services. If Sonos didn’t support them, they would be dead in the water.

Like it or not, digital downloads and local libraries are a dying breed with a market share even smaller than physical media now.