What does the future hold

I have read this, left a few days, and re-read it.

Oddly I’d have been happier with obsolescence of players than I would with controllers. If I could just shunt in a new piece of hardware and have the right control I’d be happy. I think the last time I physically interacted with a piece of hardware was in 2013 when we moved house. Half of them I can’t even see.

Instead we are left with apps that some seem to like, but more seem to dislike, voice which some seem to like and some dislike, and a mish mash of controllers via varying bits of hardware (phones, laptops, desktops, that seems like managing quicksand.

You can buy hardware to configure as a dedicated controller but you are at the whim of both apple/sonos as to when that controller will be deprecated. So buying versions that aren’t the latest is a risk, and buying the latest versions is expensive, and a waste of a tablet on a simple control.

I’d certainly agree the competition don’t deliver a step-change in functionality so ripping out multiple zones looks challenging.

And Sonos have a battle on their hands maintaining functionality due to changes in sources (streaming from iPhone, BBC on TuneIn, etc). This will suck resource. 

The smaller systems 1-2 zones is probably where the volume is and the real benefit of Sonos is at its weakest. They are competing against £80 bluetooth speakers that sound good and connect directly to phones.

So what do I think the future holds:

• More services with sudden functionality loss as outside of Sonos control
• A more confusing landscape with different functionality between App, Computer Control, and control via third party service (Alexa, Spotify etc)
• Less differentiation between an £80 speaker and a £multi-thousand whole house audio system

Looking further down the line (10+years) and I see the home integration scrap eating Sonos’s lunch. Without a slick interface I am not sure they can fight the tide of Amazon, Echo, Apple. It will just be easier to have a wider integration.

We have Ring for doorbell, UniFi for WiFi, CCTV from Dahua, Dots from Amazon, music from Sonos, many of those provide cross functionality e.g. both Ring & UniFi could do CCTV. 

With Amazon owning Ring, and the higher quality Echo. I could see if purchasing from scratch today I may well be Ring for bell/CCTV and Echos for Music, or a similar play with Google hardware as it can cover WiFi. It will become easier to accept a much lower quality sound system because it builds on the integration eco-system.

It’s a much tougher path ahead for Sonos than the one they have travelled. So far they have ‘only’ had to defeat all comers in the whole house audio market. But the fight is becoming much bigger, this brings much bigger players.

I’m not sure Apple can play as its too Apple-centric. I see much more likely a scrap between Google/Amazon for domination of the home tech market.

One thing is sure, there is a lot of new products to come.

That makes sense to me.  Sounds like cost is less important to you as is the convenience of having a controller than you’re comfortable with and know how to use well, rather than having to consider a different means of control for whatever reason.

I can’t agree on the like/dislike of controllers.  The forum is naturally going to see more complaints that compliments just because people don’t often make the effort to say they like something.  The phone/tablet/PC/mac market is all over the place though and changing all the time, which creates havoc for customers.  I don’t think this is a Sonos only issue though,  but an app developer/smart home issue.

Yes.    I personally don’t see a ton of a value in a dedicated controller.  However, I’m the primary user, so my phone is always on me and ready to use, and we use voice controller rather liberally.   I can see where other household with different lifestyles would find greater use for a dedicated controller, and would have the issue you describe.

I think Sonos has done the best they can in this regarding, by making APIs public and free of charge.  For the most part any content not available on Sonos is due to decisions and issues on the streaming services side, not Sonos.  Doesn’t mean customers won’t blame Sonos and won’t have to spend time doing something about it.

The number of speakers per home sounds about right if I remember Sonos quarterly statements correctly.  However, many of these are soundbars or Amp/Port, which wouldn’t be comparable in any way with bluetooth.  They are also competing with echos and google assistance for those who want voice control smart speakers.  There  are those that are deciding between bluetooth options and Sonos, but I wouldn’t say this is exactly the demographic Sonos is targeting.  You are right though that Sonos is a stronger, better system the more products you own.  No doubt about that.

I don’t think there will be more.  As Sonos sells more speakers, services will have greater need to maintain service to Sonos.

Again, not seeing this. Less difference between a single speaker and a BT speaker perhaps, but not a whole house audio system.

I don’t know what scrap means in this context.  And Amazon/echo don’t really have an interface, unless you mean voice, where Sonos effectively has the same in terms of controlling music.  I don’t know Apple’s but do know it’s limited to Apple services.

Agreed on this.  An Amazon whole house system makes sense if you want ease of use, don’t care as much about sound quality, cheap, don’t care about integrating TV audio, other streaming services, or higher multiroom functions.  That actual fits quite a large group of people, evidenced by the massive sales.

Yes, it most certainly could be.  Sonos does have some patent advantages and such to keep them ahead in certain aspects and has remained relatively service agnostic.   I think Snips takes that even further if Sonos get their own voice assistant.  Perhaps surprising, the much bigger players have not tried to push much into higher market speakers with their systems.   Not sure if they just aren’t interested, want to maintain some semblance of partnerships with Sonos and other speaker makers or just don’t see a market for it.

Apple seems to be throwing in the towel on the smart speaker side of things and backing Amazon in a fight against Google.  At least for now.

Yes, most definitely.

It’s now possible to use Echo devices as Logitech Media Server speakers - the same Echos have voice control with a very extensive list of commands (95 intents versus the rather restricted set offered via Sonos).  The Shows also have metadata display.

The recent 50 euro offer on the Show 5 provides a rather neat speaker/display which integrates nicely into the LMS ecosystem.

Sonos hsve a way to go.   I don’t think a speaker lamp for over 150 euros is such a bargain in comparison.   

Squeezebox?  I don’t see how that has much impact on the competition that echo speakers offer to Sonos.  I’m not saying echos aren’t competition, they absolutely are. Just that LMS isn’t likely to move the needle that much.

I agree that for many ‘squeezebox’ is a lost cause, probably because its versatility at so many levels is so overlooked. 

Or because the brand doesn't actually exist anymore, because it ceased selling products many years ago?

Could be that also.   A massive fail by Logitech management which started with the ‘new’ so-called ‘smart’ UE radio.

Fortunately, the radio itself could easily be repurposed as the original Logitech radio and can still be found on e-bay at reasonable prices.

Meanwhile the players continue on in various guises based on the almost ubiquitous Raspberry Pi (many with the addition of various DACs).   Or, you can even use various Sonos devices …. !

Danny,

I’m going to say I agree with pretty much everything you put. And any minor quibbles are probably more nuances than a difference in opinion.

For instance I’m aware that the dislikes of app features are more heavily voiced than the likes or passives. My thoughts are we have had numerous changes of the apps over the years, a number that seemed to offer little benefit than a new GUI to learn. But the functionality differences between desktop apps and phone/tablet apps just seems there to confuse people. You know what you want to do, you know it does it, but you can’t find it. Then eventually realise it won’t do it in the desktop version, or on the controller, or its done differently in the app. Other than Dev cost there is rarely a reason why the Desktop can’t do all the things the App can (TruePlay, the EQ thing, being a rare exception). Simple and consistent is good.

Since we locked down to keep the CR100s I have zero internal support cases from wife/kids as they know how it all works, and it hasn’t changed. It’s primary function play music, is met. (This may change as daughter wants a music streaming service so may have to unlock yet). And it's still the best tech product I have had. 15-years+ and stuff still in use daily. We use the alarms a fair bit to set stuff running, so daily does mean daily.

I think the higher end sound quality is just too small for the big boys to go after 1st round but we have seen improvements in Amazon devices and they are starting to look at higher quality devices. That said I am not certain the Amp/ZonePlayer market may ever really feature i their line-up as the markets are just too small.

I wonder if we will see a much larger ‘whole house piped music market’ sub Sonos standard but good enough and a return to dedicated systems for the enthusiasts. Sonos crossed the line to enthusiasts enough that only the enthusiastic enthusiasts could be bothered not to have the integration. I am less fussed about music than movies, so Sonos Amp stuff is more than good enough for music. But the Playbar relegated to kids playroom and dedicated home cinema still rules the lounge. But in order of price magnitude it is probably 5 times the price of playbar/sub/play1 set-up. Music in the lounge is slightly cumbersome as you have to go and turn the amp on, and change the input, whereas a playbar would be slicker. But it just doesn’t do the SPL of big speakers & big subs.

And the home integration stuff is growing fast. OK we may be ahead of the curve but we have something like 150+ IP connected devices at home ran across 4 VLANs everything from windows, heating, doorbells, cameras, PV systems, the car, TVs etc. Your average joe is going to need an ecosystem to handle this for them. They can’t be expected to put in place VLANs, to manage security but just like home routers have added guest networks (effectively a VLAN) they will need a ‘things LAN’.

I suspect there are at some point going to be some expensive losers in this game both for consumers with redundant systems and for corporates who lose the battle for the ecosystem.

Dave,

FYI Napster still works fine on 8.4 and can be controlled with the CR100…..

Also I recently added Google play music. Whilst it appears as a source on the CR100, it throws an error when you try to access it. However it works fine through the Sonos app or desktop controller.

Cheers

I am clearly not as ‘techy’ as the other contributors on here and a lot of what has been said has gone over my head. However, I have picked up from a couple of threads that people are still using their CR100 controllers: is this the case because mine both became obsolete upon the installation of an update some time ago. Is there any way they can be ‘undone’ for want of a better explanation?