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January 23, 2020

The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

  • January 23, 2020
  • 570 replies
  • 22879 views

I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S  to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

All that said, this is the solution I intend to proceed with and recommend here:

Opt for a legacy system operation in May, that will run legacy and modern products, exactly as these run today; no faffing around with two networks. No more enhancements, but expecting Sonos to honestly fulfil their recent promise of all bug fixes that the legacy products can accommodate. Ditto for what needs to be done to accommodate changes driven by at least the mainstream service providers.

By a happy coincidence, all legacy products have line in jacks. So if something even happens at the streaming service end that cannot be accommodated in legacy products, I am confident of finding some device that can be wired to the line in jacks of these, that will still allow streaming from the culprit service to work including in grouped mode with all other products in the system.

The streaming from the local NAS will not have any issues in this mode, other than hardware failures including that of the NAS, and a key assumption here is that NAS changes will not need a Sonos software update.

Although Sonos has said that new products can be added to such a system, I do not see how this is possible once new products come installed with versions that are beyond the frozen legacy system one. Unless Sonos is not going to sell any new products in future with versions beyond the 2020 legacy one - I doubt that. And once a product comes with the latest version, adding it to a legacy system without rendering legacy products inoperable is going to be tricky because it will involve first separating the one system into two; I also admit to being a little fuzzy with this bit. In my case, this is all moot; I have no need for another zone. As an aside, I am someone therefore that is not of much interest to Sonos!

I also assume that if anyone at any time in the future wanted to jettison legacy products for any reason, all they will need to do is leave all such products powered off, invoke updates and the result will be a Sonos system updated to the day they do the invocation. The concern here for me is different - I need to have an ironclad way of NOT updating my system before I am ready to separate or jettison legacy products, and this needs more insights into how things will work on this front in future.

I am pretty sure that this way ahead will work in my use case and I suggest it will also work for many that are heavily invested in Sonos legacy products, that do not want to write it off or to trade up to new products just to retain all existing functionality.

Yes, it involves losing future enhancements/features, but once we accept that these essentially are music boxes that will keep doing all they do today, that should be an acceptable trade off, I suggest. It is to me, for sure.

So this way, this event will be just a minor inconvenience, and I expect to be able to use all my existing products till the hardware fails.

What this event has convince me though is to now look at/recommend smart systems that are truly modular in the sense that the smart bits can be periodically replaced at low cost, while the core “dumb” electronic hardware can be of such build/after sales support, that it justifies the higher investment in the consequent price, if better sound quality is also needed than what the smart front ends can alone provide. But that's for the future.

 

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    570 replies

    airforceteacher
    Headliner I
    January 28, 2020

     

    A minor point, but I don’t want to have to switch off iOS automatic updates for all of the 100+ apps on my iOS devices, just to prevent the Sonos app from updating. Sonos needs to provide a legacy iOS app, separate to the one which is acquiring new features.

     

    100%  This is my big worry.  Hopefully if they don’t someone will reverse engineer it and come up with a third party app for legacy users. I have a ZP80 and a ZP100 I’m not quite ready to replace.  Had they announced this before the price increase, I’d have recycled and pulled the trigger.  Announcing this change after the price increase feels dirty to me.

     

    However, there’s definitely a “where else would I go?” feeling.  AFAICT from reviews, everyone else’s whole house audio solutions are far inferior to Sonos, either due to controller issues, lack of sync or network stability.

    KumarAuthor
    January 28, 2020

    Technically this is true but in practice you need more than one app to cover all the services that the Sonos app delivers in one.

     

    Don’t most of us that prefer a variety of sources prefer the native app over the Sonos app? In the main, we pick a service as much for its distinct interface as anything else; using the standardised Sonos app brings all to pretty much the same cosmetic level, nullifying this reason for the choice. That’s another reason that takes people away from a One Sonos approach.

    January 28, 2020

    @Ryan S  Want to make some friends out of this?  When the dev’s reinvent the Legacy Version, bring back the full featured Desktop controller.  One of SONOS earlier debacles.

     

    Local Superstar
    January 28, 2020

     

     

      AFAICT from reviews, everyone else’s whole house audio solutions are far inferior to Sonos, either due to controller issues, lack of sync or network stability.

    I have a system running at the moment with a Sonos Beam, 2 chromecasts (2 of which are connected to BT transmitters), a Google Nest Hub, a logitech internet radio and a Roberts S1 speaker.  All playing different streams without any issues - all controllable from an android app, a dedicated controller remote, and a linux PC web-browser (and by voice with Alexa deviices - including the Fire TV - when required). 

    Impossible on the clunky sonos system now or in the future.

    It's the courageous bee's knees - all 6 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝. - - - - - Make Sonos Great Again - - - - -
    Enthusiast II
    January 28, 2020

    Many thanks Kumar for starting this thread.

    Like others on here, I locked down to 8.4 in order to continue using my 3x CR100s - they still work a treat by the way and are in daily use.

    Thus, I am perhaps not best placed to advise those who are in this unfortunate situation as to the ways forward but If it helps at all, I can confirm that after nearly 2 years, Napster and Google Play Music (the only streaming services I use) still work perfectly. Others on 8.4 have confirmed that the likes of Spotify and Amazon also still work so the hope is for those that remain in legacy mode that this will continue for some time yet.

    Aside from a couple of Play:1s, all my kit is legacy so in my case, I have two choices:

    1. Open my system up to Sonos and allow new software updates (but lose my CR100s), then come May remain on legacy and just hope that Sonos sticks to its word and continues to provide bug fixes and updates to allow continuous access to streaming services if Napster etc. change any of their protocols.
    2. Stay as I am and see what happens

    Option 2 is my preferred course at the moment but I am stuck if Napster changes anything….

    As a geeky type, I am interested in looking at the PI solutions.

    There was a user here several months ago who was beta testing some PI box that they had put together to achieve some solution. I can’t remember who or what it was and the forum search is of no help…..

    But I’m sure that if someone made such a box that was maintained by an open source community, that could stream from all the well known music services and then present itself to Sonos as a music source, people would buy in to that.

    Finally, I suppose if I was in the situation that pretty much everyone else here seems to be in (that is, they have a mixture of modern and legacy), then my plan moving forward would to be to stay in legacy mode until streaming broke or some killer feature came along that I couldn’t live without. 

    I have to say that in nearly 2 years at 8.4, I have never seen a new feature that has even slightly tempted me to move forward…….

     

     

     

    Enthusiast II
    January 28, 2020

    Also, there is one piece of info I can share for those who are looking to lock down their systems now and it concerns the Sonos IOS app and automatic updates raised by pwt

    There is a method to stop the IOS Sonos app from updating whilst allowing all other apps to auto update as usual. It was discovered by patmill and is buried deep in the CR100 thread so I shall paraphrase it below:

    Tryng to disable the Sonos iOS app from updating wasn't working for me.

    Disabling background updates / cellular / etc didn't work, as I kept getting an update pushed to it.

    Ultimately what I found that seems to be working is to do the following:

    Use iMazing to get the Sonos app .ipa file from your device. Make a copy of it (just in case) and rename it to .zip 

    Open up the zip file, and remove the iTunesMetadata.plist file and the META-INF folder (you should be left with only a folder called Payload, and an artwork file)

    Rename the zip file back to an .ipa file

    Using iMazing, remove the original Sonos app from your device and upload the modified .ipa file

    Initially, it seems fiddly but if you are going through the lockdown procedures posted by footsore then you will already have done much of this.

    This trick works a treat!

    Enthusiast II
    January 28, 2020

     

     

      AFAICT from reviews, everyone else’s whole house audio solutions are far inferior to Sonos, either due to controller issues, lack of sync or network stability.

    I have a system running at the moment with a Sonos Beam, 2 chromecasts (2 of which are connected to BT transmitters), a Google Nest Hub, a logitech internet radio and a Roberts S1 speaker.  All playing different streams without any issues - all controllable from an android app, a dedicated controller remote, and a linux PC web-browser (and by voice with Alexa deviices - including the Fire TV - when required). 

    Impossible on the clunky sonos system now or in the future.

    Sounds too good to be true. What's the catch with this system?

    Local Superstar
    January 28, 2020

     

    But I’m sure that if someone made such a box that was maintained by an open source community, that could stream from all the well known music services and then present itself to Sonos as a music source, people would buy in to that.

     

    It already exists (runs on Pi’s inluding the 20 usd zero w, and Windows, Linux, Mac).  Software cost 0.  Open source and community support.

    Streams  Spotify, Deezer, Qobuz, Napster, Tidal, Pandora, Pocketcasts, Radio Paradise, Tunein 

    No limit on local library size.

    Controllers via web browsers, apps for android, Mac,  You control update schedule.

    It's the courageous bee's knees - all 6 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝. - - - - - Make Sonos Great Again - - - - -
    Enthusiast II
    January 28, 2020

     

    But I’m sure that if someone made such a box that was maintained by an open source community, that could stream from all the well known music services and then present itself to Sonos as a music source, people would buy in to that.

     

    It already exists (runs on Pi’s inluding the 20 usd zero w, and Windows, Linux, Mac).  Software cost 0.  Open source and community support.

    Streams  Spotify, Deezer, Qobuz, Napster, Tidal, Pandora, Pocketcasts, Radio Paradise, Tunein 

    No limit on local library size.

    Controllers via web browsers, apps for android, Mac,  You control update schedule.

    Would that be the LMS solution that you mention? If so, is there a definitive article you can reference somewhere or is it a Google job?

    Takes me back - rather gutted that only a few months ago I sold a couple of SliMP3 units on ebay…..

    Cheers

    chickentender
    January 28, 2020

    Put simply. All of the past week’s realizations have further convinced me that a networked distributed computing model is inferior for home audio application. A server/thin-client model is far more sustainable.