Contributor I

The Hot Mess of this Community Forum for Feature Feedback/Request/Voting

Forum|Forum|8 years ago
January 15, 2018
30 replies
1587 views

So, after having my own recent issue be pretty much ignored by Sonos, and slightly poo-poo'd by jgatie (no offence taken), I just can't find ANYTHING that remotely resembles a functioning feedback loop for Sonos. This open wound was stinging with much salt poured into it after visiting CES 2018, of which Sonos is going to get their a$$ handed to them if they don't really listen to their customer base soon, and innovate from the suggestions of people that ACTUALLY use their products. I saw the start of it last year, but it's really picking up steam with everyone getting integrated, with a bar, Alexa, etc. etc.

I know Chris has tried his hand at a voting thread here (https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/wishlist-for-sonos-controller-improvements-6730862/index1.html#post15967003) but it's a hot mess, non-accountable and disorganized. I have no idea what they are working on, what is most wanted, etc. This isn't a slur to Chris by any means and I appreciate what he's trying to do - it's just what it is here for him to work with and let's be honest - it just sucks.

As I say to my people, "You can't come in and b!t*h about a problem unless you bring alternatives, information or a possible solution..." So, here it is (Disclaimer - I don't work or get any money from ProductBoard, it's just one of the better options that does what I'm suggesting):

Problem statement post from them I mostly agree with...
https://blog.productboard.com/validate-ideas-share-your-plans-and-celebrate-what-youve-launched-9912723ff71e

Example Portal:
https://portal.productboard.com/pb/tabs/7-under-consideration

This would be AWESOME in terms of knowing (from a glance, not TLDR of 267 replies on Chris' topic) what the Sonos team sees as important, delivery, rating from the community, etc. Make the suggestion request requirments that they actually own a Sonos unit (they already have that information with our Profile). It would keep the tire-kickers and distractors at bay somewhat, leaving mostly those that have a "dog in the hunt."

This is SO needed here or the upstarts that DO listen and are agile enough to implement (well) the desired feature sets and integration, will eat their lunch.

Can we get some momentum/interest here?

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Chris

Lead Maestro

The old Sonos forum had more of an idea thread to it. Actual items could be marked as either "In Consideration" or "Planned". When they went to the new format here, I guess over a year ago, all of that was lost. So yea I did start that thread. I know there needs to be a good way to express group ideas (there just really isn't a good way on this boards format).

The old board was actually two boards. There was the support boad (which had those indicators) and there was the forum (which was more of the advanced user discussion board). It was actually nice having the separation from users needing help and more enthusiast discussion.

Sonos is always so tight lipped when it comes to future development, even the old method wasn't of much use.

It really comes down to submitting something here and they will see it and pass stuff along...but the development team really has its own agenda which I think is more marketing and upper management based. They do listen to feedback and we get a few bones here and there. It's more a a Sonos philosophy then not listening .... their philosophy is that whenever you interact with Sonos, whether at home, office, friends etc., that you should get the same exact experience. It's why they frown on customizations that people clamor for. It's why they don't like multiple versions of the app out in the wild. They have been softening that a little bit I guess in past 6-8 months. But they still aren't really allowing any customizations.

Sorry you didn't have good experience with a problem. Sometimes there are so many posts here peoples stuff gets lost in the shuffle and Sonos doesn't always pick up on threads they should.

Honestly - the best real support method for Sonos is calling them on the phone. Its the best method to get good attention on a subject vs. days of back and forth on a board like this. Of course there are a lot of knowledgable users here that can point people in the right direction but don't always have the tools Sonos has (like looking at diagnostics) to determine the issue.

Respect the Queue (2)Move (3)Beam (1) Era100 (2)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1) Roam (2) Ace (1)Connect:Amp (4)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings; (2)Play)

V

VideoVicAuthor

Contributor I

The old Sonos forum had more of an idea thread to it. Actual items could be marked as either "In Consideration" or "Planned". When they went to the new format here, I guess over a year ago, all of that was lost. So yea I did start that thread. I know there needs to be a good way to express group ideas (there just really isn't a good way on this boards format).

Hence the reason for this post - glad to know I'm not the only one that's noticed that. Thanks for the history on the board system.

...It really comes down to submitting something here and they will see it and pass stuff along...but the development team really has its own agenda which I think is more marketing and upper management based. They do listen to feedback and we get a few bones here and there. It's more a a Sonos philosophy then not listening .... their philosophy is that whenever you interact with Sonos, whether at home, office, friends etc., that you should get the same exact experience. It's why they frown on customizations that people clamor for. It's why they don't like multiple versions of the app out in the wild. They have been softening that a little bit I guess in past 6-8 months. But they still aren't really allowing any customizations.

Sorry you didn't have good experience with a problem. Sometimes there are so many posts here peoples stuff gets lost in the shuffle and Sonos doesn't always pick up on threads they should.

Honestly - the best real support method for Sonos is calling them on the phone. Its the best method to get good attention on a subject vs. days of back and forth on a board like this. Of course there are a lot of knowledgable users here that can point people in the right direction but don't always have the tools Sonos has (like looking at diagnostics) to determine the issue.

I think you've conflated my issue with their lack of support and the topic at hand. Yes, I just need to give them a call for the problem (it was a complete waste of time on the email/submit path). I appreciate you, jgatie and others trying to help but don't you ever get the feeling they just are pissing on their user base without a mechanism for feedback? I understand being "tight lipped", but that is a sword that cuts both ways. If I can't see a manufacturer listening to a customer and actively doing something for the customer, then I take my money to those that do. It's simple market dynamics. I know, I know - marketing people think they "know better". Fine, they can put it on something like I suggest with ProductBoard and see how it fairs to non-groupthink fisking in the wild. 😃

jgatie

Unfortunately, public voting on features is easily gamed. We've seen this on the old boards when a Windows Phone app request was leading the pack with thousands of votes when Windows Mobile had about 2% of the market. Turns out Windows Mobile enthusiasts who wouldn't know Sonos from sonar were registering and voting due to a call to arms. Same thing happened on the other forum with a poll on Hires audio support. Hundreds of register, vote once, and done accounts that sought to game the poll. Sonos is smarter than that.

As to little to no feedback? That's their policy. People have been complaining about it for years, with similar prophetic predictions of doom if they don't publish their internal roadmap So far, the predictions have been quite inaccurate.

Chris

Lead Maestro

Yea - short of call or email to open a support ticket...there is not easy way to document feedback other than posts here (which can get lost in the shuffle).

I started the poll as a way to send feedback on requests to sonos. Problem is with this forum - once I started the pole I have no way of going back and changing it (so I couldn't make it a very dynamic poll as far as user input). You also after a short period can't go back and change a post - so not way to update the first post with updates.

If a Sonos person would maintain it - with ideas and showing (under consideration) (planned) etc. and sticky post to the ideas category that would be good. They mentioned once they thought about it.

The other issue really becomes - this is a Sonos forum and there are no customer moderators. As users we are limited on how we can provide information to other users therefore within the limits of the Sonos moderators.

A user subcategory would be nice with customer moderators. Don't see it happening though. What would be cool would be something like a CLUB SONOS category that was user moderated and could therefore control some of the trolling that goes on or hateful rhetoric that really doesn't belong in the support forum side (which takes away from others trying to get help).

Respect the Queue (2)Move (3)Beam (1) Era100 (2)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1) Roam (2) Ace (1)Connect:Amp (4)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings; (2)Play)

V

VideoVicAuthor

Contributor I

Unfortunately, public voting on features is easily gamed. We've seen this on the old boards when a Windows Phone app request was leading the pack with thousands of votes when Windows Mobile had about 2% of the market. Turns out Windows Mobile enthusiasts who wouldn't know Sonos from sonar were registering and voting due to a call to arms. Same thing happened on the other forum with a poll on Hires audio support. Hundreds of register, vote once, and done accounts that sought to game the poll. Sonos is smarter than that.

As to little to no feedback? That's their policy. People have been complaining about it for years, with similar prophetic predictions of doom if they don't publish their internal roadmap So far, the predictions have been quite inaccurate.

You misread my post - I said nothing of "public voting". In fact, I specifically called out above a means to make it tied to ownership (which they know in your profile). That would be a reasonable weeding, but by no means complete. But as it sits, you (and me, and Chris, Kumar, etc) short of staging a revolt here get 3ms worth of airtime to keep a feature (not just my goofy alarm request) afloat long enough to get any traction.

Chris got what I'm saying. As for dire consequences, I'm not predicting any. I'm predicting they will lose market share if they don't innovate; sometimes it comes from within, sometimes from outside. I've been doing tech work for over a quarter century, and I personally like doing business with those that don't treat me like a peon to be hurded or spat upon. Those that have taken feedback well have traditionally done better and are still around. Transparency (as much as their pretentious, closed-off ecosystem can stomach), is a *good* thing.

I also want to see what others are requesting AND WHY... That's a huge point. I have very good friends that have been doing high end home theater (Crestron, etc) for years and they want different things out of a Sonos than I do. We have good philosophical discussions over lunch/dinner around who needs what and why on different items (Sonos coming up occasionally). I wouldn't mind knowing if they (the participant) are an end user, integrator, sales channel, etc. too. It helps me understand their angle.

V

VideoVicAuthor

Contributor I

Yea - short of call or email to open a support ticket...there is not easy way to document feedback other than posts here (which can get lost in the shuffle).
... Don't see it happening though. What would be cool would be something like a CLUB SONOS category that was user moderated and could therefore control some of the trolling that goes on or hateful rhetoric that really doesn't belong in the support forum side (which takes away from others trying to get help).

Lots of goodness in that reply. I think a marriage of the two - trusted customer mods with a forum like ProductBoard that weeded out the slackers jgatie loathes with having real Sonos users having r/w versus public readonly. Sonos gets the best of both worlds - low cost outlay pain (except to get the software for the board up and running) and the customer base get a place they take care of so nobody craps on the rug, etc. with a better representative voice.

Chris

Lead Maestro

We don't see a lot of integrator / Sales channel people on the board (actually surprisingly). And when we have had people say they are integrators I sometimes question that (as some of their comments then lead me to believe they are just complainers in disguise and don't even understand some basic Sonos concepts).

You tend here to have enthusiasts (usually stick around a good amount of time), the gloom and doom naysayers (they just stick around to complain about their pet issue for a few months and then when that is resolved they disappear back in the hole they came from), and the casual user (who comes here for some help with a lingering issue and want support).

The enthusiasts - don't really have a place to talk amongst themselves about things that would be improvements, how best utilize the system, wishlist requests.

The Naysayers - clog up threads with continual complaining in a completely uninformed manner (and don't listen to any reason).

The Casual Users - their posts don't have a way to easily get picked up by Sonos because of the volume of them and the other discussions from the groups above that make their posts and legitimate needs less conspicuous.

Respect the Queue (2)Move (3)Beam (1) Era100 (2)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1) Roam (2) Ace (1)Connect:Amp (4)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings; (2)Play)

V

VideoVicAuthor

Contributor I

I'm somewhere between Enthusiast and Casual. Complaining, only comes in when it's egregious. ;)
You and the +1000 post people need a place... bad.

So who here can bend Joy Howard's ear for 5 minutes to get something worthwhile done to help you folks out?

jgatie

I'm not against some sort of voting. I just know that often times the only people who vote are those that are most vocal, and that is by no means indicative of a majority. I prefer the more directed surveys they send out, rather than a public forum that is usually taken over by the very vocal minority.

As to feedback, I've seen more feedback. I've seen the results of telling people what is planned and what is not. Saying something is planned results in pleas to know approximately when, followed by pleas to know exactly when, then complaints that it isn't here yet, followed by complaints that it either took too long or, if delivered early, it wasn't tested enough.

Saying something is not planned results in doubling down on complaints, mostly telling the Sonos techs why their reasoning for not doing it is stupid and wrong, using any explanation given as a cudgel, instead of information for the customer. Matter of fact, it is the very few and far between poster who actually says "Hey, thanks for keeping us informed. Now I can make a decision."

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. At least the way they do it now they aren't telegraphing their roadmap to the competition.

Chris

Lead Maestro

Very true jgatie

VideoVic - us 1000+ posters do tend to talk amongst ourselves.

The big problem us long time posters have is when posters come on here with an all mighty attitude and the nasty back and forth ensues. Sonos won't moderate their customers "opinions" - a private board would put a stop to the shinanigans real quick.

Respect the Queue (2)Move (3)Beam (1) Era100 (2)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1) Roam (2) Ace (1)Connect:Amp (4)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings; (2)Play)

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