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Michael Sch
Enthusiast I
November 3, 2017

Take Heed Sonos Devs

  • November 3, 2017
  • 73 replies
  • 2134 views
While you sit in your conference rooms and debate the 8.x app with corporate speak sentences like "They will get used to it" and "This happens every major upgrade" and "Scale-able, cross-platform modern blah blah blah.....".
One thing that has never happened before with my Sonos house happened last night. And it is important you realize the significance.

I had three couples over for drinks and I put on one of my playlists and then I turned the ipad over and placed it under my bar. I did it without thinking - it just seemed less distracting that way.

This morning i did think about it however. I had never done that before. I tend to hand off the Ipad and let guests marvel at my wonderful Sonos system. I let them pick music from the seemingly endless inventory of tunes from Google and Apple. Soon old songs are played that bring back great memories - people sing and some might even dance.
It almost always turns into a "So what is this Sonos thing?".

Last night. That did not happen.
The new interface is just confusing enough for new users that i have to give a tutorial I didn't feel like giving a tutorial.
The aesthetic is a bit too glaring and, in my opinion, not as attractive as it once was.

Your app is more than a tool. It is a showpiece. And we, the owners of Sonos dearly love to show it off. The speakers, yeah, they the Wow factor when the rich sound fills the house but when a new user touches the app and finds any song at the end of their fingertips, you can almost see the excitement in their eyes.

So while we can debate endlessly of 8.x being intuitive or not intuitive or 8.x being an evolutionary step forward or backward, one thing is a stone cold fact: six people did not fall in love with Sonos last night.

And THAT is something you should worry about.
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      73 replies

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      chicks
      chicks
      November 3, 2017

      Don’t get me wrong I have no issues with lossy files, on a Play 3 or maybe even a 5 I probably couldn’t hear the difference. I mostly listen on my Connect Amp and there I can, that’s all. And I wouldn’t apply the term HIFI to those files as Chicks did.

      I listen via QUAD ESL-63s. I’ve compared CDs, SACDs, and high bitrate compressed streams. Can’t hear a bit of difference. Neither can anyone in properly controlled DBTs, with rare, well known exceptions.
      andrewmk
      Renowned Enthusiast II
      November 3, 2017

      Don’t get me wrong I have no issues with lossy files, on a Play 3 or maybe even a 5 I probably couldn’t hear the difference. I mostly listen on my Connect Amp and there I can, that’s all. And I wouldn’t apply the term HIFI to those files as Chicks did.

      I listen via QUAD ESL-63s. I’ve compared CDs, SACDs, and high bitrate compressed streams. Can’t hear a bit of difference. Neither can anyone in properly controlled DBTs, with rare, well known exceptions.

      Truly all I can honestly say to you is that I don’t believe you. Either that or your hearing is seriously screwed.

      If you can’t tell the difference between SACD on Quad speakers and naff lossy audio, then why are you even bothering with Sonos? Go get yourself two tin cans and a piece of string and knock yourself out. You do your credibility no favours with nonsense like this. Besides, I don’t consider Amazon’s service as high but rate.

      Like I said, you can listen to what you like, but by no stretch of the imagination is highly compressed lossy audio ‘hifi’ It’s you that cannot hear the difference, not me.

      Andrew
      chicks
      chicks
      November 3, 2017
      Show me a valid DBT then. Plenty of them over on Hydrogen Audio proving no one can hear a difference. Can you find one proving you can? Good luck...
      BCM
      BCM
      November 3, 2017
      Awesome. An audiophile argument challenging the way other people hear music. Those never happen.
        amun
        November 3, 2017
        If you can’t tell the difference between SACD on Quad speakers and naff lossy audio....

        ....by no stretch of the imagination is highly compressed lossy audio ‘hifi’...

        That's not what he said, though - "high bitrate compressed streams" - not the same thing at all.
        andrewmk
        Renowned Enthusiast II
        November 3, 2017
        Show me a valid DBT then. Plenty of them over on Hydrogen Audio proving no one can hear a difference. Can you find one proving you can? Good luck...

        If you really believe your own argument why would you even invest in ESL speakers? Especially when,as posted elsewhere , you write that two Play:1’s sound just as good as them? That is so off the mark I don’t know where to even start, but if you seriously can’t hear the difference you need your hearing checked out.

        The tone of your arguments are always to tell others how it is. You can’t hear the difference, so that is how it is. You think that the v8 app is better, so that is how it is. Well, no — these are your opinions. I’m not here to convince you. So don’t insult me by saying you find it ‘laughable’ when I state my opinion as different to yours.

        Andrew
        chicks
        chicks
        November 4, 2017
        Your opinion isn't based in fact. Big difference. Mp3 and AAC are well documented to become transparent at certain bitrates, above which no further improvement is noticeable. Fact. Your belief that you can "hear" differences is simply your opinion. It has no factual basis. It is the basis of all audiophilia; religion, not science.

        Here are the facts, including the bitrates at which transparency is achieved for various codecs. The major services all stream at much higher bitrates than required for transparency .

        http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Transparency
        Kumar
        November 4, 2017
        but by no stretch of the imagination is highly compressed lossy audio ‘hifi’ It’s you that cannot hear the difference, not me.

        Generalisations are said to be odious and the quoted one is as well - for instance ECM produced albums that are mastered for iTunes are delivered in 256kbps lossy formats. Do these also qualify for the "highly" classification in the quote above?
        If they do, add me to those that cannot hear the difference between these and CDs/lossless rips of the same album, so I have no trouble in accepting the lossy versions as HiFi. I doubt anyone has heard differences in a DBT involving kit that is ten times or more as expensive either with these files, and I would love to read the evidence of that as opposed to speculation. On the other hand, I can easily pick these being played on my play 1, compared to, say, my JBL Flip 3, with my eyes closed. Which just says that the former speaker is more HiFi than the latter.

        As someone said about the economy once - it is the speakers,...I will leave the last part unsaid.

        And it is down to mastering quality; a poorly mastered CD/lossless file will not sound as good a 256kbps or even more compressed file from a well mastered version of the same performance.

        The problem is of people doing comparisons with too many variables in the mix and jumping to wrong conclusions.
        Kumar
        November 4, 2017

        If you really believe your own argument why would you even invest in ESL speakers? Especially when,as posted elsewhere , you write that two Play:1’s sound just as good as them? That is so off the mark I don’t know where to even start, but if you seriously can’t hear the difference you need your hearing checked out.

        And I don't know why this "get your ears checked" is such a common response, but it is. Exactly what I was told when I said something similar about a 1 pair compared to a pair of Harbeth C7s some years ago. Even after I had made a qualified conclusion.
        As to the specific comparison it was made in a context of use/application. I have a play 1 pair on my desk, flanking my computer and playing music when I am at the desk. I challenge anyone to have any Quad ESL pair, even the latest one that sells for USD 10K or such, sound just as good for that use. After they have shoe horned it into the space.
        Apologies for continuing the digression, but the thread subject is a beaten to death horse. Come to think of it, so is this one.
        andrewmk
        Renowned Enthusiast II
        November 4, 2017
        ...
        Thanks, it is here that I bow out of the conversation and this forum. As it with my postings about the v8 app I repeatedly said that one’s own viewpoint is just that. What *I* hear is what I hear, what *I* see is what I see, what *I* feel is what I feel.

        If my personal opinion is odious, so be it. However I don’t need to be told by others what I should think, feel, see or hear. I have only been around these forums a few weeks to realise there are 3 individuals who feel the need to chime in on almost every thread; they effectively act as bullys who put down any dissent in the ranks. Either way this is not a chilled or friendly place to hang out. You guys are welcome to it. cheerio
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