Enthusiast I

Sonos support for Apple Music's Lossless Audio

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
May 17, 2021
153 replies
92048 views

Announcement: https://www.apple.com/ca/newsroom/2021/05/apple-music-announces-spatial-audio-and-lossless-audio/

Now that Apple Music has joined the “lossless club”, can we please hear from Sonos as to whether this will be supported, and, if it will be, approximately when that may occur?

Thanks.

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K

Kumar

it would be much better for Sonos to be proactively working with Apple as much as possible to make this happen and to communicate to the Sonos community exactly what Sonos is doing in this regard - v.s. simply saying it is up to Apple.

I agree, except that I would not use the word “exactly” in the quote. Sonos can do a better job on this than what it does today without at the same time going the whole hog and letting customers be privy to all the details of their interactions with Apple, or to make a commitments to time frames for implementation until they are sure these can be met.

Saying - it is all up to Apple - sounds silly. IMO. Sonos defenders will disagree.

The question of how stable wireless streaming of data dense HD music files will be, especially in grouped mode, is something that not many users are anticipating though. In many cases stable music play will need grouped units to be ethernet wired to the network. So, be careful what you wish for. And, for something of unproven audible benefit.

Airplay 2 seems interesting though, assuming (since I don't have it) that it delivers stable music play today. The interesting thing is that on the phone side, one can obtain the HD streams, while for in home distribution these are down sampled to files as dense as CD format files, presenting a lesser challenge for wireless distribution. With the same sound being delivered because the downsampling will still allow all the benefits of remastered to a higher standard HD music to be heard.

D

DarwinOSX

What’s the current quality of Apple music on Sonos? Based on the information from the article, sounds as if Apple is only offering above CD quality on Apple devices...which is pretty typical of Apple.

To start listening to Lossless Audio, subscribers using the latest version of Apple Music can turn it on in Settings > Music > Audio Quality. Here, they can choose different resolutions for different connections such as cellular, Wi-Fi, or for download. Apple Music’s Lossless tier starts at CD quality, which is 16 bit at 44.1 kHz (kilohertz), and goes up to 24 bit at 48 kHz and is playable natively on Apple devices. For the true audiophile, Apple Music also offers Hi-Resolution Lossless all the way up to 24 bit at 192 kHz.1

That is completely wrong if you have read anything at all and it is not typical of Apple. Apple Music is on android and everywhere else they can think of to make money from services.

D

DarwinOSX

Looks like apple are opening up Airplay 2 to be able to stream up to 24/192 as long as your end point has a DAC that can recieve that.

In my case my Sonos Amp is my end point so the question is will Sonos now expand on its 24/48 limitation it has with Qobuz and let us hear hi res streaming from Apple Music?

I know Sonos seems to be against hi res streaming but it's moving from a niche market into the mainstream now with Apple / Amazon and Spotify all going to be providing hi res streaming as standard.

They are not “opening up” Airplay 2. A new version of Airplay would be required to go beyond cd quality. Sonos has always denied the benefits of hi res so I very much doubt their hardware can play it.

K

Kumar

They are not “opening up” Airplay 2. A new version of Airplay would be required to go beyond cd quality.

Interesting and it suggests that there is much more to Airplay than what meets the eye.

All these gyrations could have been avoided if more Sonos speakers had line in jacks. Wire an iDevice and get the HD sound via the oldest, universal and widely accepted protocol - analog electrical signals - without anything having to be done by either company. Heard sound quality then is dependent just on speaker quality...

S

scobihughes

Trending Lyricist I

Looks like apple are opening up Airplay 2 to be able to stream up to 24/192 as long as your end point has a DAC that can recieve that.

In my case my Sonos Amp is my end point so the question is will Sonos now expand on its 24/48 limitation it has with Qobuz and let us hear hi res streaming from Apple Music?

I know Sonos seems to be against hi res streaming but it's moving from a niche market into the mainstream now with Apple / Amazon and Spotify all going to be providing hi res streaming as standard.

They are not “opening up” Airplay 2. A new version of Airplay would be required to go beyond cd quality. Sonos has always denied the benefits of hi res so I very much doubt their hardware can play it.

I’m lead to believe it will just be an software update of Airplay 2, not a new version altogether, like what apple done when moving streaming to 4k on Apple TV. The capability has always been there it’s just been capped.

So will we now see Sonos support Hi-Res for Apple Music’s 70 million subscribers who from next month will have access to Hi-Res streaming?

K

Kumar

So will we now see Sonos support Hi-Res for Apple Music’s 70 million subscribers who from next month will have access to Hi-Res streaming?

I am sure that Sonos has a pretty good idea of how much of their user base is a subset of this 70 million number; while prioritising their actions and resource allocation, if there is one thing you can be sure of, it is that Sonos will be very mindful of its user base - existing as well as target - sliced and diced in every which way.

melvimbe

@James L. I read through this thread and understand your answer. Perhaps there is power in the community of Apple Music / Sonos users collectively requesting that Apple support lossless on Sonos. However, it would be much better for Sonos to be proactively working with Apple as much as possible to make this happen and to communicate to the Sonos community exactly what Sonos is doing in this regard - v.s. simply saying it is up to Apple. As a Sonos user, I expect that Sonos is working with all important music services to get the best experience for Sonos users. So be vocal about that! thx.

I didn’t interpret @James L. comment to mean that Sonos doesn’t care about the audio quality of services or what their customers are asking for. The point was that Sonos can’t just make it happen without the consent and cooperation of the music service itself. As well, Sonos, doesn’t want the general public to be a fly on the wall in the various negotiations Sonos has with Apple. There isn’t really a lot to gain by that.

Danny

melvimbe

What’s the current quality of Apple music on Sonos? Based on the information from the article, sounds as if Apple is only offering above CD quality on Apple devices...which is pretty typical of Apple.

To start listening to Lossless Audio, subscribers using the latest version of Apple Music can turn it on in Settings > Music > Audio Quality. Here, they can choose different resolutions for different connections such as cellular, Wi-Fi, or for download. Apple Music’s Lossless tier starts at CD quality, which is 16 bit at 44.1 kHz (kilohertz), and goes up to 24 bit at 48 kHz and is playable natively on Apple devices. For the true audiophile, Apple Music also offers Hi-Resolution Lossless all the way up to 24 bit at 192 kHz.1

That is completely wrong if you have read anything at all and it is not typical of Apple. Apple Music is on android and everywhere else they can think of to make money from services.

The text in italics was a direct quote for the article. If I’m wrong then the article is wrong. And yes, it’s not at all surprising for Apple to have services/features that are only available on Apple devices. heck, airplay can only be generated from Apple devices. Yes, you can have Apple music on an android, but you can’t use airplay, and based on the text above, you won’t be playing hires tracks. But hey, maybe the article is wrong or I’m just not reading it right.

Danny

J

jay house

Avid Contributor III

Looks like apple are opening up Airplay 2 to be able to stream up to 24/192 as long as your end point has a DAC that can recieve that.

In my case my Sonos Amp is my end point so the question is will Sonos now expand on its 24/48 limitation it has with Qobuz and let us hear hi res streaming from Apple Music?

I know Sonos seems to be against hi res streaming but it's moving from a niche market into the mainstream now with Apple / Amazon and Spotify all going to be providing hi res streaming as standard.

They are not “opening up” Airplay 2. A new version of Airplay would be required to go beyond cd quality. Sonos has always denied the benefits of hi res so I very much doubt their hardware can play it.

I’m lead to believe it will just be an software update of Airplay 2, not a new version altogether, like what apple done when moving streaming to 4k on Apple TV. The capability has always been there it’s just been capped.

So will we now see Sonos support Hi-Res for Apple Music’s 70 million subscribers who from next month will have access to Hi-Res streaming?

Do you have a source for this info? Would be good to know if that’s happening. It would seem possible as surely the bit rate required is still below Airplaying 4K video across your network, which Airplay 2 was upgraded to do last September. It doesn’t fit the smallprint of Apple Music Lossless though. The most logical time to announce this would be WWDC in June but Lossless doesn’t launch until then either and already says for anything higher than 24/48 you need an external DAC physically attached, which would contradict being able to do it via AirPlay.

Also, is Sonos’ 24/48 limitation physical or in software?

S

scobihughes

Trending Lyricist I

Looks like apple are opening up Airplay 2 to be able to stream up to 24/192 as long as your end point has a DAC that can recieve that.

In my case my Sonos Amp is my end point so the question is will Sonos now expand on its 24/48 limitation it has with Qobuz and let us hear hi res streaming from Apple Music?

I know Sonos seems to be against hi res streaming but it's moving from a niche market into the mainstream now with Apple / Amazon and Spotify all going to be providing hi res streaming as standard.

They are not “opening up” Airplay 2. A new version of Airplay would be required to go beyond cd quality. Sonos has always denied the benefits of hi res so I very much doubt their hardware can play it.

I’m lead to believe it will just be an software update of Airplay 2, not a new version altogether, like what apple done when moving streaming to 4k on Apple TV. The capability has always been there it’s just been capped.

So will we now see Sonos support Hi-Res for Apple Music’s 70 million subscribers who from next month will have access to Hi-Res streaming?

Do you have a source for this info? Would be good to know if that’s happening. It would seem possible as surely the bit rate required is still below Airplaying 4K video across your network, which Airplay 2 was upgraded to do last September. It doesn’t fit the smallprint of Apple Music Lossless though. The most logical time to announce this would be WWDC in June but Lossless doesn’t launch until then either and already says for anything higher than 24/48 you need an external DAC physically attached, which would contradict being able to do it via AirPlay.

Also, is Sonos’ 24/48 limitation physical or in software?

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