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Persistent playback issues

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
September 4, 2021
72 replies
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Hi all

I'm posting here as a final hope. I have a set up of:

1 x boost

1 x beam

4 x play:1

1 x play:3

2 x One SL

1 x One

1 x Sub

I moved into my current house in January, moving in with most of the speakers and adding the 2 One SLs.

The house isn't massive, but it is old. And has a mixture of walls between rooms that vary from a single bricks thickness to an absurdly thick 20 inches (of brick and stone. Like I said...old house!)

Due to the walls the house kills WIFI. I have cable broadband with download speeds of up to 220mbs if within a few feet of the router. However if you move to the adjoining room (beyond one of the 20 inch walls) you'll be lucky to even pick up the WiFi, not least achieve any respectable download speeds. So I've installed a netgear orbi mesh, with 3 access points in the 'dead zones'. WiFi now works perfectly well, as does the 2 hue hubs I have (1 hub for each floor, every room in the house is equipped with hue).

I also have ring door bell and a couple of their cameras that work fine.

I've recently shiftes the 5ghz network to the cleanest channel (using a WiFi analytics app), and shift the 2. 4 ghz to second cleanest channel, and set the sonos mesh up to the cleanest channel.

I have one neighbour who lives closely. But they often my phone won't even find their WiFi due to the walls!

The boost is hardwired into the main router, as is the sub. 3 subsequent speakers are hardwired to 2 separate APs.

But the speakers constantly cut out when playing music. Randomly on occasion, certainly when skipping a track. I've called sonos support who advised I've "done everything" and to try hard wiring more speakers (which I did, hence the number plugged in). This hasn't helped. There's no constants, some speakers are worse than others on different days. But they are all unreliable at different times. Sometimes all the speakers stop and skips to the next track. Sometimes a couple just stop playing for a few seconds.

I'm now left questioning if it's time I move to another make of speakers. I love sonos, and appreciate the house is a challenge for WiFi. But I am finding myself just switching off music and/or not even bothering to turn them on now which makes me sad!

Having checked the network matrix, it is mostly made up of green, couple of orange. No red. I spent months slowly moving speakers to new locations to eradicate red. I don't want to run cables everywhere and I've exhausted my limited knowledge of networking! I have also rebooted everything several times. Problem is its only sonos that is not working as it should.

I stream Spotify mostly. If anyone could suggest anything to try I'd greatly appreciate it

Thanks

Tom

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Best answer by Corry P

Hi @Goteamtom

Fair enough.

I think the key will be minimising the multicasts. The PER (Packet Error Rate) between the Boost and some of the speakers concerns me, and that’s mostly to do with interference or poor reception, but getting rid of the multicast flooding may allow the system to cope with the PER we have, or at the very least it will be easier to determine when you have found the best spot for the Boost, i.e. moving the Boost will actually have a positive effect on grouped playback. Wiring more Sonos devices should make the PER less of an issue too.

Right now, the annoying factor is that you have 2 situations which both result in exactly the same symptoms. Clearing one or the other may help, but both need to be resolved before you will be able to group all your rooms together successfully.

Edit: 3 situations, if you count the possible IP conflict for the Play:5.

Show previous replies

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @Goteamtom

Welcome to the Sonos Community!

You’ve been given some very solid advice, but it seems you’re still having trouble with grouping. Please recreate the playback issue, then immediately submit a diagnostic and reply here with the number given. Thanks.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

G

GoteamtomAuthor

Trending Lyricist I

Hi @Goteamtom

Welcome to the Sonos Community!

You’ve been given some very solid advice, but it seems you’re still having trouble with grouping. Please recreate the playback issue, then immediately submit a diagnostic and reply here with the number given. Thanks.

57396493 is a diagnostics

Hi all, apologies I've been away. Thanks for your support. Frustratingly nothing has improved, there are still things I haven't yet tried but I've already invested far too much time in trying to rectify it.

My play 5 has now disappeared from the app completely. Despite being in the same room as the wired boost. Hopefully sonos can help!

Again, thank you for all your help, if I get anywhere I'll update!

ratty

My play 5 has now disappeared from the app completely.

Its wireless could have finally given up the ghost. If you wire it to the Boost’s second port does it reappear?

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @Goteamtom

Thanks for that.

First, as was said before, we’d recommend wiring more than one Sonos device to ethernet. When creating large groups (in the diagnostic, you have 10 rooms grouped), this is a must. Ideally, these wired units would be spread out through your home. As mentioned previously, wiring to mesh nodes isn’t ideal.

The Boost is reporting a lot of failed transmissions. Boost, Main Bedroom, Dining room, Utility and Polly’s Bedroom are all reporting high interference. I recommend you try to isolate these devices from any possible sources of interference. There’s a guide to spotting sources on our reducing wireless interference help page. 1m space will suffice.

However, it’s Penelope’s Bedroom, Office and Living Room that the Boost is reporting failed transmissions to - I recommend never putting these in charge of a group (selected first). This doesn’t appear to be due to range or poor signal, so must also be interference.

What channel is your 2.4 GHz WiFi on? Your SonosNet is on channel 1, so if your WiFi is on a channel number less than 6, then there will be overlap and this can cause more problems than if they are on identical channels (when on the same channel, WiFis “time-share” the available bandwidth). 1,6 and 11 are the only non-overlapping channels.

The missing Play:5, on the most recent diagnostic where it is present, was reporting issues with STP, meaning that some networking packets are being routed back to itself - this is likely why it’s dropping off the system. Why this is happening isn’t entirely clear, as the Boost is running STP so should being doing so without issue. Physically, the unit seems fine. Do you have a router in addition to your Orbi mesh, or is the main Orbi node your main router? If you have a router in addition to the mesh system, then I recommend wiring Sonos to the main router and ensuring that Orbi is in Bridge mode - instructions are here and you should reboot your main router after doing so.

If none of this helps, I recommend you call our technical support team on 0800 026 1526 so they can gather full details of your network and try various things in real time with you. You may want to refer them to this post, to save some time. I’ll PM you your case number (I’ve added some notes to the case).

I hope this helps.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

ratty

The Boost is reporting a lot of failed transmissions. Boost, Main Bedroom, Dining room, Utility and Polly’s Bedroom are all reporting high interference.

The OP reported having Hue everywhere.

I find that getting up to switch the light on and off yields a more benign radio environment.

G

GoteamtomAuthor

Trending Lyricist I

Hi @Goteamtom

Thanks for that.

First, as was said before, we’d recommend wiring more than one Sonos device to ethernet. When creating large groups (in the diagnostic, you have 10 rooms grouped), this is a must. Ideally, these wired units would be spread out through your home. As mentioned previously, wiring to mesh nodes isn’t ideal.

I ran ethernet cables to 4 units across the house from my main router, it improved nothing

The Boost is reporting a lot of failed transmissions. Boost, Main Bedroom, Dining room, Utility and Polly’s Bedroom are all reporting high interference. I recommend you try to isolate these devices from any possible sources of interference. There’s a guide to spotting sources on our reducing wireless interference help page. 1m space will suffice.

I’ve previously spent hours to days steadily isolating each individual speaker. Take the dining room for example, that is mounted to a wall 8ft in the air. Metres from anything else. And across the room to the boost with literally nothing in the path between the two. With exception of placing this one into the garden, i don’t know how to further isolate it from interference!

However, it’s Penelope’s Bedroom, Office and Living Room that the Boost is reporting failed transmissions to - I recommend never putting these in charge of a group (selected first). This doesn’t appear to be due to range or poor signal, so must also be interference.

when i tested the grouping over the weekend, the most consistent playback I achieved was from the Living room being placed in charge of grouping...my concern is there is no pattern to the issues. whichever speaker is best one day, may well be worse the next

What channel is your 2.4 GHz WiFi on? Your SonosNet is on channel 1, so if your WiFi is on a channel number less than 6, then there will be overlap and this can cause more problems than if they are on identical channels (when on the same channel, WiFis “time-share” the available bandwidth). 1,6 and 11 are the only non-overlapping channels.

i’ve previously used a wifi analyzing app to ensure SonosNet went on the clearest channel, furthest away from everything else

The missing Play:5, on the most recent diagnostic where it is present, was reporting issues with STP, meaning that some networking packets are being routed back to itself - this is likely why it’s dropping off the system. Why this is happening isn’t entirely clear, as the Boost is running STP so should being doing so without issue. Physically, the unit seems fine. Do you have a router in addition to your Orbi mesh, or is the main Orbi node your main router? If you have a router in addition to the mesh system, then I recommend wiring Sonos to the main router and ensuring that Orbi is in Bridge mode - instructions are here and you should reboot your main router after doing so.

unfortunately I only have a modem, and my main router is an orbi router. the play 5 is still currently not being discovered..

If none of this helps, I recommend you call our technical support team on 0800 026 1526 so they can gather full details of your network and try various things in real time with you. You may want to refer them to this post, to save some time. I’ll PM you your case number (I’ve added some notes to the case).

my concern is i’ve tried the technical support twice before. the first time i was advised to further isolate the speakers (which i’ve now done), the second time was a 45 minutes phone call that entailed longer periods of silence and being placed on hold whilst the agent perused my error code. I was advised it’s all fine, and to plug more speakers into the APs. Which i’ve now established is the wrong thing to do..i’m therefore somewhat reserved to ring them again

I hope this helps.

my also run an extensive hue set up across the house. two bridges. dozens of bulbs and dimmer switches etc.

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @Goteamtom

Compounded problems can be difficult to solve - you might fix one issue but still experience playback problems due to other issues, and therefore think you’ve fixed nothing at all.

Wiring Sonos devices to mesh nodes can help, but only if the nodes have a good backhaul connection. As this is done over 5GHz which, compared to 2.4GHz, has a low range and is unable to penetrate your walls as well, you need to make sure that they are located well. The nodes shouldn’t be placed where you have poor main WiFi reception, but in locations where they get a good 5GHz connection and their transmissions reach out to the areas with poor reception. Wiring Sonos to them is certainly not as ideal as a wiring solution that doesn’t depend on WiFi, but if they are well placed, it can help.

I recommend powering everything off - the router, the mesh nodes, all smart home hubs and Sonos. Then, turn on the router only (not the mesh nodes) and once you have WiFi access, turn on the Boost. Once the Boost has a solid white light, turn on the other Sonos units one at a time, keeping an eye on the Sonos app (which will only work when in range of the main router) as to which units show up. I’d start with the Play:5. With the full Sonos system up-and-running, test fully - with the mesh nodes and smart home hubs off, does Sonos operate reliably? If so, please turn on the mesh nodes and test again. Finally, turn on the smart home hubs too and test once more.

This should, at the very least, inform you of where the problem is coming from.

Regarding interference, all I can say is that it is there - the speakers aren’t making it up. Keep in mind what may be on other sides of (even thick) walls, not just what’s in the same room as speakers, and also keep in mind that the sources of interference may not be WiFi devices - it could be baby monitors, electricity smart meters, microwaves, or even close-by metal or glass surfaces.

Do you have dimmable LED lights in the house? These also may cause interference, though it’s rare. Test with lights on and with lights off, to compare.

If you have a longer ethernet cable, can you test the system with the Boost well away from the router and Hue hubs? Proximity of the Boost to other devices is the single most common interference problem, as the router, Boost and other Hubs all tend to live in one location, and really need to be apart.

Also, apologies - I was looking at an older diagnostic when I said SonosNet was on channel 1. Your most recent shows channel 6. 11 might be worth testing, but I’d check your Orbi settings and see if you can doubly-make-sure that automatic channel selection is off for 2.4GHz, as this could cause a problem.

Have you tried using your Sonos system without any devices wired to ethernet? It might be worth a try. You’ll need to teach the system the WiFi password first: Settings » System » Network » Manage Networks » Update Networks. Once done, turn off the Boost. Turn the Boost back on to revert back to SonosNet.

Finally, when using SonosNet, a network switch with IGMP filtering/snooping positioned between the router and Boost may help matters with the Play:5. If other devices on your network are erroneously multicasting to Sonos, it could be causing problems for the Play:5 and one of these devices would fix it. If, after turning everything off as described above, you find that other devices on your network are part of the problem, then this will probably help. Search “igmp switch” on Amazon and you’ll see some for around £30. If it doesn’t help, you can always return it for a refund.

I notice you’re in the UK - me too, and we don’t normally get “only a modem” over here. What device do you have, please?

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

G

GoteamtomAuthor

Trending Lyricist I

Hi @Goteamtom

Compounded problems can be difficult to solve - you might fix one issue but still experience playback problems due to other issues, and therefore think you’ve fixed nothing at all.

this is a very good point!

Wiring Sonos devices to mesh nodes can help, but only if the nodes have a good backhaul connection. As this is done over 5GHz which, compared to 2.4GHz, has a low range and is unable to penetrate your walls as well, you need to make sure that they are located well. The nodes shouldn’t be placed where you have poor main WiFi reception, but in locations where they get a good 5GHz connection and their transmissions reach out to the areas with poor reception. Wiring Sonos to them is certainly not as ideal as a wiring solution that doesn’t depend on WiFi, but if they are well placed, it can help.

I recommend powering everything off - the router, the mesh nodes, all smart home hubs and Sonos. Then, turn on the router only (not the mesh nodes) and once you have WiFi access, turn on the Boost. Once the Boost has a solid white light, turn on the other Sonos units one at a time, keeping an eye on the Sonos app (which will only work when in range of the main router) as to which units show up. I’d start with the Play:5. With the full Sonos system up-and-running, test fully - with the mesh nodes and smart home hubs off, does Sonos operate reliably? If so, please turn on the mesh nodes and test again. Finally, turn on the smart home hubs too and test once more.

I’ll try this this evening!

This should, at the very least, inform you of where the problem is coming from.

Regarding interference, all I can say is that it is there - the speakers aren’t making it up. Keep in mind what may be on other sides of (even thick) walls, not just what’s in the same room as speakers, and also keep in mind that the sources of interference may not be WiFi devices - it could be baby monitors, electricity smart meters, microwaves, or even close-by metal or glass surfaces.

with this in mind, I have to assume it is in the wall. Because there is nothing either side the wall

Do you have dimmable LED lights in the house? These also may cause interference, though it’s rare. Test with lights on and with lights off, to compare.

I have hue dimmer switches, but no hardwired dimmer switches. only bulbs used are hue. i’ve tried Sonos with the hue bridges off previously

If you have a longer ethernet cable, can you test the system with the Boost well away from the router and Hue hubs? Proximity of the Boost to other devices is the single most common interference problem, as the router, Boost and other Hubs all tend to live in one location, and really need to be apart.

at present the boost is in another room to the router. When I first moved in I had an ethernet socket hardwired as to allow a wired connected between rooms to ensure the bridge is isolated from all possible interference

Also, apologies - I was looking at an older diagnostic when I said SonosNet was on channel 1. Your most recent shows channel 6. 11 might be worth testing, but I’d check your Orbi settings and see if you can doubly-make-sure that automatic channel selection is off for 2.4GHz, as this could cause a problem.

whilst I do not remember the exact Channel I set it to, I have switched off ‘automatic selection’ on the Orbi for both 2.4ghz and 5ghz. I used a wifi analyzer to ensure each were set to the clearest channel

Have you tried using your Sonos system without any devices wired to ethernet? It might be worth a try. You’ll need to teach the system the WiFi password first: Settings » System » Network » Manage Networks » Update Networks. Once done, turn off the Boost. Turn the Boost back on to revert back to SonosNet.

no i haven't tried this. is hall as a plan b to the aforementioned plan

Finally, when using SonosNet, a network switch with IGMP filtering/snooping positioned between the router and Boost may help matters with the Play:5. If other devices on your network are erroneously multicasting to Sonos, it could be causing problems for the Play:5 and one of these devices would fix it. If, after turning everything off as described above, you find that other devices on your network are part of the problem, then this will probably help. Search “igmp switch” on Amazon and you’ll see some for around £30. If it doesn’t help, you can always return it for a refund.

I actually have a switch between all hardwired devices and the router or APs. i have tried to hardwire as much as I can to limit wifi traffic, so all TVs, computers, smart hubs etc. are all hardwired to orbi via a switch

I notice you’re in the UK - me too, and we don’t normally get “only a modem” over here. What device do you have, please?

I’m with Virgin, so using their Superhub 3.0 in modem mode. as a router it was not strong enough to get out the room it was in

thanks, i’ll try the above

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @Goteamtom

Finally, when using SonosNet, a network switch with IGMP filtering/snooping positioned between the router and Boost may help matters with the Play:5. If other devices on your network are erroneously multicasting to Sonos, it could be causing problems for the Play:5 and one of these devices would fix it. If, after turning everything off as described above, you find that other devices on your network are part of the problem, then this will probably help. Search “igmp switch” on Amazon and you’ll see some for around £30. If it doesn’t help, you can always return it for a refund.

I actually have a switch between all hardwired devices and the router or APs. i have tried to hardwire as much as I can to limit wifi traffic, so all TVs, computers, smart hubs etc. are all hardwired to orbi via a switch

I notice you’re in the UK - me too, and we don’t normally get “only a modem” over here. What device do you have, please?

I’m with Virgin, so using their Superhub 3.0 in modem mode. as a router it was not strong enough to get out the room it was in

Is it a IGMP switch specifically? If not, replacing it with one may make a difference.

Please ensure your Virgin router has a red light at the bottom - if it is white, then it’s still in router mode.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

G

GoteamtomAuthor

Trending Lyricist I

Hi @Goteamtom

Finally, when using SonosNet, a network switch with IGMP filtering/snooping positioned between the router and Boost may help matters with the Play:5. If other devices on your network are erroneously multicasting to Sonos, it could be causing problems for the Play:5 and one of these devices would fix it. If, after turning everything off as described above, you find that other devices on your network are part of the problem, then this will probably help. Search “igmp switch” on Amazon and you’ll see some for around £30. If it doesn’t help, you can always return it for a refund.

I actually have a switch between all hardwired devices and the router or APs. i have tried to hardwire as much as I can to limit wifi traffic, so all TVs, computers, smart hubs etc. are all hardwired to orbi via a switch

I notice you’re in the UK - me too, and we don’t normally get “only a modem” over here. What device do you have, please?

I’m with Virgin, so using their Superhub 3.0 in modem mode. as a router it was not strong enough to get out the room it was in

Is it a IGMP switch specifically? If not, replacing it with one may make a difference.

Please ensure your Virgin router has a red light at the bottom - if it is white, then it’s still in router mode.

The switch was not IGMP, which I've now replaced with a switch that is.

The virgin router is definitely in modem mode

So, I turned everything off as suggested. Started just turning back on the modem and orbi router, leaving the orbi satellites turned off, and both the hue hubs are off. I then turned one sonos on at a time starting with the boost. The dining room still can't be found...and having got all the other speakers to connect and tested the music...playback is worse than it ever has been! With two or three speakers at a time cutting out together and the odd speaker cutting in and out every few seconds

I've moved some bits and pieces further from the speakers where I can, but generally speaking everything is as isolated as I can make it.

New diagnostics code is 928932889

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