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Trending Lyricist I
June 15, 2023

Interesting problem with Amp and turntable

  • June 15, 2023
  • 51 replies
  • 1705 views

Father in law gave me a nice vintage turntable so I ordered the Sonos Amp and received it with much excitement. B&W speakers are on the way but for now I don't have passive speakers which made trouble-shooting interesting... 

TT and phono stage to line-in on the Amp streaming to my Arc and one SLs in the other room and... uuuggh... a quiet, harsh, tinny sound with ZERO bass.

So... after hours of fooling around I'm still at square one. In a nutshell this is what I've done:

-Tested the turntable (phono stage has a separate headphone jack... sounds great)

-Used other line-in sources to the Amp... my phone, cd player... all sound great.

-I even hooked up an audio interface to the turntable and then to my Amp. It has a line-out so I was sure I was getting a line level signal. This also sounded great. There's obviously some ADC going on in there and this solved the issue... not sure how?

As soon as I put the exact same same line-out from the phono stage back into my Amp directly I get the quiet tinny sound again. Any ideas of what i might have missed?

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51 replies

swisserAuthor
Trending Lyricist I
June 16, 2023

This is a slightly left-field suggestion.  It is just that this rings very faint and distant bells from another thread.  Could you try removing the surround speakers from the Arc and just play through the Arc.  Or try setting the Autoplay room in the Amp settings to one of your One SLs.

I have absolutely no technical justification for this suggestion and it will probably be a waste of your time.  It is just that I have sometimes successfully worked to the principle of “when all possible explanations have been ruled out, start looking at the impossible ones”.

Edit - or just try directing the audio to another single speaker in your system if you have one, rather than deconstruct your HT system.

Tried this in many different combinations with my one SLs (stereo and individually), Beam Gen 1 in another room and my neighbours Era 100. The one SLs just gave me distortion and a faint hint at the audio from the turntable. The era 100 sounded much more high pitched than the arc but no distortion. The fact that they all sounded so different smells fishy... 

swisserAuthor
Trending Lyricist I
June 16, 2023

So does that little adapter do the ADC? Shouldn't that be in the speaker? 

 

I imagine it would have to be.  USB can do analog output, but I’m pretty sure it can’t do analog input.  

I just assumed it was sort of pin to pin and the respective devices handle the rest... interesting.

buzz
Grand Maestro
June 16, 2023

Depending on which SONOS USB adapter you use, the adapter will also support an Ethernet connection.

swisserAuthor
Trending Lyricist I
July 1, 2023

Update:

I now have a pair of bookshelf speakers hooked up to the Amp and the turntable (plus preamp) to line-in on the Amp. As I suspected they sound totally fine. 

I am still getting the same poor sound quality when playing the turntable on the Arc and Beam in another room. Just adding the speakers seems to have magically fixed the issue when I send it to my One SLs, but this only when they are paired in stereo. If I separate the One SLs I get static and no audio when trying to play the turntable on either of them.

In short, it's all messed up and I suspect it is a network issue. Desperately in need of help/ideas because this is sort of the main reason I bought the Amp.

 

AjTrek1
July 1, 2023

Hi

Vintage TT can different things to different people. What brand is the TT.  Also important to note is the type of cartridge being used MM (Moving Magnet) or MC (Moving Coil). The later is more finicky although produces a better sound. Below is a link that explains the difference.

Your pre-amp should have a setting to MM or MC. Make sure it’s set correctly.


https://sumikophonocartridges.com/turntable-cartridge-types/

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
buzz
Grand Maestro
July 1, 2023

As I mentioned above, network issues can cause intermittent, and missing sound, not distortion. Cartridge miswiring can result in some of your observations. Speakers close together or a mono Room will exhibit more symptoms and headphones less symptoms of the type you are describing if they are due to cartridge miswiring. It’s very easy to check the wiring and this would be my first step If I had your symptoms. Since this is a vintage turntable, the miswiring could have occurred decades ago.

If this is a MM/MC spat, all attempts at playing would be equally effected.

July 2, 2023

Update:

I now have a pair of bookshelf speakers hooked up to the Amp and the turntable (plus preamp) to line-in on the Amp. As I suspected they sound totally fine. 

I am still getting the same poor sound quality when playing the turntable on the Arc and Beam in another room. Just adding the speakers seems to have magically fixed the issue when I send it to my One SLs, but this only when they are paired in stereo. If I separate the One SLs I get static and no audio when trying to play the turntable on either of them.

 

Do things improve if all of these other Sonos speakers are placed in the same room - as a test - as the Sonos Amp that is delivering the complete signal to the passive speakers?

Of course, if there is a network issue it will manifest itself as stuttering or no music and not as poor sound quality. As said by others here.

swisserAuthor
Trending Lyricist I
July 2, 2023

@Kumar 

Actually yes. The One SLs, which sound fine are in the same room, but they only work when paired in stereo. The Beam sounds quite bad and is in another room. An Era 100 is in the furthest room and seemingly consequently, sounds the worst.

The thing is, my router is not in the same room (it's actually right beside the Beam), so how is distance relevant?

Also my Arc is in the same room as the Amp and it doesn't sound the same as the passive speakers. 

swisserAuthor
Trending Lyricist I
July 2, 2023

As I mentioned above, network issues can cause intermittent, and missing sound, not distortion. Cartridge miswiring can result in some of your observations. Speakers close together or a mono Room will exhibit more symptoms and headphones less symptoms of the type you are describing if they are due to cartridge miswiring. It’s very easy to check the wiring and this would be my first step If I had your symptoms. Since this is a vintage turntable, the miswiring could have occurred decades ago.

If this is a MM/MC spat, all attempts at playing would be equally effected.

I have confirmed it is an MM cartridge and that my preamp is configured accordingly. But do you have another example of how it could be "miswired"? Do you mean in the turntable itself? Because I'm pretty sure that from the phono out to the Amp, it's wired correctly.

July 2, 2023

@Kumar

Actually yes. The One SLs, which sound fine are in the same room, but they only work when paired in stereo. The Beam sounds quite bad and is in another room. An Era 100 is in the furthest room and seemingly consequently, sounds the worst.

The thing is, my router is not in the same room (it's actually right beside the Beam), so how is distance relevant?

Also my Arc is in the same room as the Amp and it doesn't sound the same as the passive speakers. 

Last point first - Speakers sound different from each other; each has a sonic signature.

The distance is relevant because the other Sonos speakers are getting the sound from the turntable wirelessly from the Sonos Amp, not from the router.

As to the One SLs - if they sound fine getting the turntable signals wirelessly from the Sonos Amp, proof of concept of the turntable as a viable source to other than the passive speakers wired to the Amp, has been established.

Moving on:

I see no reason why the One SL should work only when paired in stereo. The typical problem is reversed - a single One will work fine, but when stereo paired, the other speaker in the pair may either not work, or may stutter. I don’t know how this is done these days, but in the past the solution to this issue would have been to run a diagnostic of speakers that are not working, and send the diagnostic number to Sonos support for troubleshooting. I suggest you do that for this pair.

And do the same as a separate complaint for the Era 100 and the Beam when they are playing. For these note that speakers stuttering due to a network issue is a valid complaint. Speakers sounding bad because you do not like their sound signature cannot be addressed except by a speaker change. Unless you are saying that the Era, for example, sounds fine when playing music from Spotify, but not when it is playing music from the turntable, wirelessly sent to it by the Sonos Amp. In which case, this is cause for a valid complaint to Sonos Support.