Would You Buy an Ampless w/Digital Out "Zone Player Pro"

I always wonder why some of us spend a lot of time doing elaborate analyses of why it will be difficult for Sonos to meet this or some other need and then shake their heads and say "nah, you'll never get this feature".

Our role as consumers of the product is to ask for features we consider useful. Sonos' role is to figure out how to meet that need and price it appropriately.

Still, I won't be waiting for Sonos to do it. I expect it will be a long time even after they decide to do it. So I plan to modify a ZP to add a digital-out as soon as the instructions to do so become available.

Rodhead,

Still laughing, thanks for the dose of reality.

I wouldn't mind waiting if I new it was coming in a reasonable amount of time. I hope it comes before someone else puts out a similar product with all the pieces in place and steals the thunder and beats Sonos to the punch.

Phil C.

I did a little research at work today, Sonos currently is valued at a 50 million a year company. And currently only holds ONE patent application (which isn't even on wireless streaming music - its on using wired systems to stream data.) That doesn't mean that they dont have discressionaries in.

In the VC world in todays day and age, a company their size is normally valued at 10 million for each million in revenue, so one can guess that Sonos has had approximatly five million in sales so far.

Not a bad chunk, but I'm willing to bet not break even yet though.

They show a lot of promise - and i'm sure they are not intentionally alienating an established market, but the professional in me says they are not trying to 'take over' a market, but build a new one.

Think of it this way : The leading producer of powertools in the U.S.A. is a 4 billion dollar a year company. They dont focus on selling hand drills to folks who already have them - thats a losing strategy. They focus selling hand drills to people who just bought their first house - and need a drill.

People are a renewable resource, large companies (or small companies who want to become large companies) realize this eventually. There is a company out there called Games-Workshop who's one time CEO had the best quote ever .. he said :

"Our target market is 12 year old boys, When our distributors complain that poke-mon, or starwars are hurting their gaming sales in that demographic this year, ask them how many boys will turn 12 NEXT year, then ask them why they are already ignoring next years sales - to focus on customers who are turning 13, and leaving our target demographic anyways. Remind them that 12 year old boys are a renewable resource, there happen to be new ones every year - ones who don't have our product yet."

From what I see of the sonos marketing engine, they are definatly going after 'more' shelf space, not trying to take the old market away from its current suppliers.

[this is just a rebuttal to your idea that SONOS is expecting its bread and butter to be from the audio/hf market. No one knows this for sure, except the management at Sonos of course 🙂 I'm just playing the backseat VP today.]

And .. of course your right 🙂 This is a silly argument 🙂 Sonos will do what Sonos does, any company that makes its business decisions soley based on postings on an web-forum, won't be around long enough for it to matter anyways :)

as always, i do agree that a digital out would be great. seems like a simple thing to have included, no idea why it wasn't perhaps it was not stable enough.

All i know is i love my SONOS, but like everyone, i see things that could be corrected on it. I'm not saying that there are not features I would love to see, just that [aside from a few folks like you, where money isn't the driving factor - you just want specific features - costs be damned.] most folks making the 'no amp' argument, seem to be doing it from the argument that they want a lower entry price point, not due to exacting standards.

Just to play devils advocate, I do point out that stacking 5 SONOS in one pre-wired area, really just counteract then whole wireless-mesh premis of the system .. I would think that would degrade the performance of the remotes in various portions of the house, depending on walls - size etc. [This is part of what I mean about it being counterproductive to the design of the system - which was engineered to be multiple zones spread out to form a mesh - not stacked zones with a very powerful signal.]

regardless, discussion is always good .. agreement notwithstanding

... The problems you bring up do not seem to be major manufacturing or implementation problems. Sonos may have a problem of capital, but that is a different story. I do not know how successful the launch of Sonos has been, but have to imagine it has gone quite well and they want it to continue.

Sonos already made one mistake by not including a digital output on the ZP. If they just make that correction alone, I and plenty others would buy another unit for the use we are proposing. Buying $600 speakers does not make one an audiophile. This is not about the audiophile; however, by making this product you will not continue to alienate that market segment who typically have more disposable income to spend on these toys.

Rembrandt,

All good stuff, appreciate the patent info and sales info.

Just one more hint that the bread and butter is the Audio/HT Market. Take a look at the store locator and see who is typically selling the Sonos. Mostly custom installers and high end specialty home theater retailers. I recently visited a new Magnolia Hi-Fi that opened in my area (inside of Best Buy) and in there high end room they had the Sonos. Why do they advertise so heavily in Home Theater Magazine's...

Just teasing you a bit... 😉

Thanks again.

Phil C.

[ ... ]
Why do they advertise so heavily in Home Theater Magazine's...
[ ... ]

In my experience, SONOS is not a product for the audiophile. Many of them distrust anything digital and all have very traditional ideas about what audio equipment is and does.

SONOS customers go to audio stores because that seems to be the place to purchase audio equipment. Many of them really don't want audio equipment, they just want music. When they see the SONOS, they instantly bond with it.

Many home theater customers also want whole house audio, it's all one big project. This aspect makes "Home Theater Magazine" a decent media choice.

I wonder if some of the high end media, such as airline seating would work for SONOS (with appropriate copy).

Buzz,

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I agree with your assesment also. I said somewhere back that the Sonos is targeted at the middle of the road Home Theater Enthusiast and that this market is the meat and potatoes.

You know we all have slightly different ideas and uses, but one that is constant is that we wouldn't be talking about any of this if the Sonos wasn't as good a product as it is.

Voting has slowed down. I hope this has at least piqued the interest of the powers that be at Sonos and something comes of it.

We are in the middle of some remodeling and I am about to make some equipment changes also. I sure would like to know if this is a possibility anytime in the near future or not. I am getting close to trying the Escient SE-80 but trying to hold off hoping there might be a glimmer of hope for a Sonos product.

Again, thanks to all for all the good discusions and ideas here.

Phil C.

Hi Pciav,

We have had some problems playing music from the Escient systems to Sonos.

Just didn't want you to be caught off guard if it doesn't work with us.

-Jason

Hi Pciav,

We have had some problems playing music from the Escient systems to Sonos.

Just didn't want you to be caught off guard if it doesn't work with us.

-Jason

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the info. I would be using the Escient completely as a stand alone system in my Living Room Audio/Home Theater area. I realize the two may not play well together and do not even plan on trying. What I do know though is that Escient is finally getting smart and bringing there pricing in to the affordable area. They are also planning a Q1 2006 software update to allow music to be accessed and streamed from a network attached computer and/or NAS. This is mainly why I am willing to take a chance on it.

LET ME BE EXTREMELY CLEAR ON THIS... I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO BUY THE ESCIENT, I REPEAT, I DO NOT WANT TO BUY ANOTHER PRODUCT. I WOULD MUCH PREFER TO SPEND MY MONEY ON A SONOS SOLUTION BUT THERE ISN'T A SONOS ALTERNATIVE FOR ME TO PURCHASE OR THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF ONE.

The current ZP is too much of a quality drop for me using it in my audio system. I have tried it as reported above. My Laptop via S/PDIF out to my Pre-Pro wins hands down over the analog out of the Sonos. There is nothing wrong with the ZP as it is for a stand alone operation, but is not up to snuff in my audio rack. I want to replace my 400 CD Changer and gain all the convenience and features of the Sonos without giving up sound quality. Just a digital output alone would solve this problem for me and many others. Sure I want an ampless 17" audio form component with a digital output, but all I really need is a digital ouput.

Jason, I realize your hands are tied at what you can say or not, but if there is any way you or someone from Sonos can provide the info I need before I make the decision to purchase the Escient it would be greatly appreciated. I do not mean here in the public forum. Email or let me know who to contact and I will. I am willing to sign an NDA for any info provided no matter what it is good or bad either way. I am willing to wait a little time if I know it is coming. If not, go forward with a clear head that I tried my best to support Sonos before making that decision.

AGAIN, JUST FOR THE RECORD, I PREFER TO SPEND MY MONEY ON A SONOS PRODUCT. I HAVE $999 READY TO BE SPENT ON THE ESCIENT SE-80.

I know my $999 doesn't mean too much in the scheme of things to Sonos. I am sorry to rant on about what really is not that an important issue in the world right now with everything going on. Can we try to put this hotly debated and requested feature to rest some way some how. C'mon Sonos, bring some pre-christmas cheer to some very appreciative current and future Sonos owners.

Thanks for listening.

Phil C.

have not bought a Sonos yet as I minimally need digital output - I don't think this is irrational in today's digital world; as someone pointed out even a $30 DVD player has one. Would take the current unit with a digital output IF the volume of the digital and analog outputs could be seperately controlled and/or selected 'max' at all times.

My ideal pro model would have IR emitter for control of existing tuner on/off/source/volume, component form factor, selectable volume adjustable or max, and I don't need the wireless mesh network as all units will be hard-wired 100mbps ethernet (i realize the latter may just be me ... and maybe it needs to be in the unit for the controller ...)

thanks for your consideration,

AndyN

I need the digital out. I can't believe that a system which will cost me thousands hasn't got this simple output.

After all, the Sonos is aiming at people who do spend loads of cash on sound equipment, I bet 'cha most of them have a d/a converter available that is better than the Sonos can ever provide in a $500 box.

LET ME BE EXTREMELY CLEAR ON THIS... I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO BUY THE ESCIENT, I REPEAT, I DO NOT WANT TO BUY ANOTHER PRODUCT. I WOULD MUCH PREFER TO SPEND MY MONEY ON A SONOS SOLUTION BUT THERE ISN'T A SONOS ALTERNATIVE FOR ME TO PURCHASE OR THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF ONE.


Do you know the Hifidelio? All it lacks in comparison to a Sonos is the slick control concept, and synchronous play. It supports Wlan satellites, has digital outs, and is said to have very good audiophile qualities.

In the US, it is also sold as the "Musica"
http://www.olive.us/p_bin/?cid=01_06_musica