Contributor I

Why is Connect more expensive than Play?

Forum|Forum|14 years ago
April 28, 2012
179 replies
75917 views

I just got my first pair of Sonos units - two Play:3's for the kitchen and bedroom and I absolutely love them. I'm not a huge audiophile, but the convenience and total plug 'n play nature of Sonos is what attracted me to it.

Of course the next thing that occured to me was how to get this connected up to my stereo.

What I don't understand is why the basic Connect is $349 while the Play:3 units are $299 each. I mean if anything it seems like a Connect is just a Play:3 without the speakers and amp? Why does it cost so much more for fewer features? Seems like the guts of the connect should be a $99 unit - I meant he appleTV is $99, and it does way more (At least in terms of technological capability - video/etc) than the connect.

To be honest I've been drooling over Sonos for years - and I know the quality is very high, but the expense of the units has always put me off. It wasn't until the Play:3 that I felt like there was enough bang-for-the-buck to justify diving in... I'm probably going to get at least 2 or 3 more Play:3's for elsewhere in the house, but it's going to be hard to justify the Connect until the price comes down further. It's still cheaper to just put a Play:3 in the same room as my stereo - it's small and powerful enough to just sit near my existing speakers.

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ratty

Can you actually point to where the Sonos website claims that you can adjust timing to compensate for any unknown digital delay in downstream equipment?

No.

It sounds like a case of caveat emptor.

jgatie

Ok adult, let's play the nerd game.

Here-below are the features reported from the Sonos website under the Connect feature list.

CONNECTS TO A HOME THEATER SYSTEM OR EXTERNAL AMPLIFIER Seamlessly integrates your home theater system and other audio devices into your Sonos Multi-Room Music System.

LISTEN TO THE SAME SONG IN EVERY ROOM, IN PERFECT SYNCHRONIZATION Play the same song in different rooms, simultaneously, without echoes or delays. Add or drop rooms from your rooms grouping and still be in sync.

Does it perform as advertised? NO.
On the contrary, it performs exactly as Sonos says it won't, with echoes, delays, etc. That's what happens if you connect your Sonos system to some strange A/V receiver from unknown brands like Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo and the likes.

End of story.

It performs as advertised with many, many receviers, name brands included. I myself own a 2 year old Onkyo, so I know. That said, other receivers can cause the effects you state; a fact I've never denied. However, for you to declare to the buying public that everyone who owns any A/V receiver ever made will always see a delay was both inaccurate and misleading, and I corrected you.

And that is the end of the story.

Now go ahead and post another childish tantrum. :rolleyes:

ratty

The end it soon will be if more tit-for-tat develops.

vannibombonato,

The feature you want doesn't exist. It may do at some time in the future, but there's clearly a long gestation period. If that's not good enough for you there's a ready market in second-hand Sonos kit.

V

vannibombonato

Avid Contributor I

The end it soon will be if more tit-for-tat develops.

vannibombonato,

The feature you want doesn't exist. It may do at some time in the future, but there's clearly a long gestation period. If that's not good enough for you there's a ready market in second-hand Sonos kit.

I'm not whining for the sake of whining.
I've obviously reported this through support, opened a ticket, etc., so that developers are aware.

This is merely to warn people that there is quite a big problem in which they MIGHT occur, if this satisfies all the lawyers around here.

For the record, i used to be a huge fan of Sonos. I've invested a relevant amount of money in it. I've even had a friend of mine buying into it.

What i am doing is simply flagging a problem which does exist, which is relevant to the Sonos system, and that can affect the majority of users that plan to use one or more Sonos Play speakers in conjuction with their home theater.

If the above does not sound fair, i think we have a kool aid problem here.

V

vannibombonato

Avid Contributor I

Can you actually point to where the Sonos website claims that you can adjust timing to compensate for any unknown digital delay in downstream equipment?

No.

It sounds like a case of caveat emptor.

Sonos specifically claims i can connect their device to my Home theater setup and have it in sync. It's not true.

Now if you want to tell me that it's my and other guys' fault because i own a modern home theater A/V, that's ok with me.

My wish is obviously not for Sonos to fail, there are tons of great features in the system, i just hope they can fix it, and the only way they can is if they are aware at first.

ratty

Delay through AVRs is reported from time to time, and gets much the same responses each time (use 'direct mode' etc). As I pointed out, an adjustable delay feature's been requested for over 7 years.

But you came on this thread with the headline "Connect is a device that does not work anymore". False generalisations like that will get shot down.

If you really want to solve this problem, swap the out-of-sync Play unit for another Connect plus modestly priced amp & speakers. You can then insert a delay unit such as this. Other members have even resorted to using an outboard DAC with a second Connect, so as to use a digital delay box.

buzz

Grand Maestro

...
Or, is it so hard to imagine a veranda with an A/V system in it, and a garden outside with some Play speakers?

Be careful about blaming equipment for any delays in this large "room".

Sound travels about one foot per millisecond. This means that if you are standing next to a speaker that is electronically perfectly synchronized with a speaker 70 feet away, that distant speaker will seem delayed with respect to the nearby speaker and one will perceive this as an echo. (this is due to the flight time of the sound) If one then moves to the other speaker location, then the first speaker will seem delayed. This is the nature of the physics.

---

SONOS is only claiming that all players in a group will emit their signal at the same time. They cannot control acoustic delays or delays added by follow on equipment.

---

By the way, the delay added by follow on equipment is not necessarily constant. More complex processing may require additional time. A change in processing may change the delay. If SONOS provided an adjustment, one would need to tinker with the SONOS adjustment as conditions changed in the follow-on equipment.

V

vannibombonato

Avid Contributor I

Delay through AVRs is reported from time to time, and gets much the same responses each time (use 'direct mode' etc). As I pointed out, an adjustable delay feature's been requested for over 7 years.

But you came on this thread with the headline "Connect is a device that does not work anymore". False generalisations like that will get shot down.

If you really want to solve this problem, swap the out-of-sync Play unit for another Connect plus modestly priced amp & speakers. You can then insert a delay unit such as this. Other members have even resorted to using an outboard DAC with a second Connect, so as to use a digital delay box.

Appreciate the suggestions, but i've been through them all and overall my opinion is that it's just all too complicated and expensive.

At the moment i'll just suck it up and eat the delay, hoping for Sonos to fix it. I think they will for a purely business reasons, Airplay is getting better and better, and i think they need to watch their back. At least that's my hope.

If as moderator you can drop another mail at it, you're more than welcome 🙂

V

vannibombonato

Avid Contributor I

Be careful about blaming equipment for any delays in this large "room".

Sound travels about one foot per millisecond. This means that if you are standing next to a speaker that is electronically perfectly synchronized with a speaker 70 feet away, that distant speaker will seem delayed with respect to the nearby speaker and one will perceive this as an echo. (this is due to the flight time of the sound) If one then moves to the other speaker location, then the first speaker will seem delayed. This is the nature of the physics.

---

SONOS is only claiming that all players in a group will emit their signal at the same time. They cannot control acoustic delays or delays added by follow on equipment.

---

By the way, the delay added by follow on equipment is not necessarily constant. More complex processing may require additional time. A change in processing may change the delay. If SONOS provided an adjustment, one would need to tinker with the SONOS adjustment as conditions changed in the follow-on equipment.

Buzz, i'm very clear on the audio dynamics, but here i'm talking about macro-delay, not slight delay which is driven by sizes, etc.

The way i see the solution is, in the sonos app, to have a slider associated to each Connect which adjust the delay to which the audio signal is sent from the Connect. Like from 0 to 150ms, where 0 is audio signal out in perfect sync with the Plays.

This way a user could adjust to its own set-up.

Obviously easier said then done, but i honestly think it's not something out of this world to implement. Also, i think the problem is going to get more wide-spread as more and more users link their Connect to newer A/V receivers.

T

the_lhc

Avid Contributor I

No offense, but i had the sensation that you had no idea what you were talking about.

Not about Airplay, I have no interest in Apple products.

Yes, you can airplay to any number of airplay enabled speakers/appleTVs/devices.

Last time i tried, it wasn't in perfect sync and that's why i spent a whole lot of money into Sonos, and now i deeply regret it.

So sell up buy your Airplay speakers and tell us how well it actually works.

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