We need Audiophile Edition version of Port

@Ivan Jeremic : it isn't just me; there is not ONE reported controlled level matched blind listening test anywhere in the world that has been able to pick the difference in a way that is statistically reliable. 

If there is any such reported, I would be very happy to read it through.

It will not affect my listening/buying - since I don't hear differences, I don’t need to run after expensive streamers or DACs, but more learning is always welcome.

My source these days is an Echo Show 5 - USD 50 - and that is just as good as anything else I have used in the past, and with album art as well, it is a very convenient high quality music source to Line In jacks on my Sonos kit. 

I think your point is largely a valid one, but the choice of Honda is a bit ironic, because the (original) NSX was considered to be a supercar, by the standards of the time! And it probably did affect their reputation for a time, though few people seem to know much about them now.

Just my 2 cents I have loved hifi for 20 plus years and as someone in this thread said I had stopped listening to music and started listening to the kit itself. Its a never ending pursuit of tweaking and upgrading which gets eye wateringly expensive. I started with sonos with a single play 1 for my wife for her work space years back and as time went on I have added more about the house and I have to say it brings back the joy of the music not the equipment. I have stopped the critical listening and accepted the sonos kit for what it is. I will say though that the port does not sound right to me I have one into a very good dac and it just sounds average compared to a raspberry pi plus a hat board at a fraction of the price but still the ease of use and integration is so good it cant be matched in my view. I cant see sonos ever offering an audiophile grade port as its such a small market compared to the their target market. Don't get me wrong id love one but it will never happen. I think the likes of aftermarket upgrades are going to be the only way if that's your thing or as I have done keep 1 good digital transport for listening in your main space alongside a sonos port. Finally with regards jitter maybe its snake oil I don't know but I borrowed a linear psu for the port and it sounded better with my dac anyway so maybe there is something to it(I'm aware that this doesn't resolve a digital issue though). Also my understating with regards to jitter/timing/clocking with spdif is that it is done before it is sent via spdif where as usb reclocks on receipt at the far end so for example my chord dac converts the spdif signal to analogue as it receives it errors and all where as it corrects a digital signal received via usb. 

The Port has drawn criticism for the DSP applied to the digital out when using Variable Volume mode. When using an external DAC it would make sense to switch to Fixed Volume, albeit at the loss of volume/EQ control via the Sonos controller.

I use it in fixed mode only so you do loose the volume and tone controls. Incidentally I think the dsp used in sonos speakers make them so easy to listen to and a sonos port connected to a pair of dsp powered speakers sounds better than through a standard dac amp speaker combo. Dsp is the work of the devil to some audiophiles but I'm all for it. If it sounds better to my ears I don't really care what kind of audio heresy has gone on to achieve it.

Why is a separate DAC even necessary with a Port.  Just plug the line output into your preamp, much simpler less hardware and wire.  Is not the DAC a mature technology?

For an equipment hobbyist, that tinkering is a necessity to keep the hobby going, with the amount spent on the external DAC varying according to budgets. Mature tech is an obstacle to this tinkering so, ergo, it isn't mature yet. Been there, done that. With external DACs costing up to USD 1500.

I have two old Connects that have worked fine with both variable and fixed outputs and since both options sound the same I prefer using variable for the remote volume control it confers. I have never heard the Port, but I suspect that even the issue with the variable outputs has not yet been picked out by anyone in a blind listening test with accurate level matching.

My experience is similar to Kumar’s. I’ve recently switched from a small setup of old ZP90’s (Connects) to a small setup of Ports. I’ve noticed no significant deterioration in sound quality - even though both ZP90’s and Ports are set to “variable” rather than “fixed” output (because I want to be able change the volume in each room from the app, rather than going into each room to do so).

In both setups I’ve been using a good-quality external DAC and power amps (by Cyrus, retail cost around £5000 total) and decent midrange (£4000) speakers, so if my ears were golden enough I ~should~ be able to hear a difference.

Having said that, I believe that a typical person’s audio memory lasts for a matter of seconds (7 seconds is the figure that I can recall) so if any change takes longer than that, the listener probably won’t be able to detect changes in sound quality with any accuracy. Needless to say, the update of my system from ZP90s to Ports took longer than 7 seconds, so perhaps I’m not really qualified to comment...

Both good points (although my memory of the research suggests that this time is less than 7 seconds) and give an insight into why setting up a robust level matched blind test is not easily done at home. Which means unfortunately that the field is left wide open to every kind of subjective comment that there can be about comparative sound quality. For kit from amps to DACs. Or even speakers in some cases.

However the specialist media has the resources to run these tests in a proper manner, but their reason for shirking from this is because 90% of what they write would then have no cause to exist, undermining their existence.

So, the merry go around goes on for those that get on it.

I am not one that rules out the effect of subjective influences on the listening experience, but I happen to think that Sonos users would be better served with a HiFi speaker that looks the part more than the 5 unit does. Or even the One, for that matter. Blessed with a well crafted veneered cabinet, both would look “HiFi” and therefore sound better to many users, more than any “audiophile” edition of the Port - which is already too expensive for what it does. Of course only as long as said user was able to overlook the Sonos name on it, which audiophiles look down upon as being too cheap to sound good to their imagined golden ears. So maybe this won’t work either!

PS: One byproduct of this thinking is the paradox that audiophiles think that the Port is too cheap to be able meet the standards set by their golden ears, while most Sonos users think that it is way too expensive for what it does.

The thing that Sonos brought to me was streaming music via Spotify and playing internet radio.  I started with a Play 3 in my kitchen purchased mainly for my wife who was using a small crummy Bluetooth speaker.  My multi-room hi-fi was too confusing and too much of a hassle for her to use.  

When the Sonos Amp came out I purchased one to replace the integrated amp I was using on my three season porch which was hooked up to a pair of speakers, a TV and the main system’s preamp.  It worked great with the TV, turning on when it sensed audio from the TV, allowing me to use the remote from the tv to adjust the volume.

It also worked well with my main hi-fi system I had setup in the basement.  As soon as the needle dropped onto the record the amp would wake up and start playing at a preset volume level.  I was also able to eliminate some devices that were in place in the line connection to deal with ground loops as my old integrated amp had grounded plugs.  

The third bonus was how easy it was to control and stream Spotify from my iPad.  I went from streaming 5 percent to now 75 percent after replacing another integrated amp in my living room with a second Sonos Amp.  The speakers in that room is often grouped with my Play 3 when my wife and I are sitting around the kitchen table.  Being able to add the Play 3 and balance the volume supplements the sound coming from the main speakers in the living room.

The Sonos Amp drives my monitors just fine and the sound I get from my records is undistinguishable from my all analog rig in the basement.  I get much enjoyment from Spotify and find myself spending more time actively listening and exploring music via my main monitors in the living room all from my iPad.