Contributor I

Sonos Port Sound Quality

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
December 2, 2021
17 replies
4691 views

There are a lot of people with questions regarding Sono Port sound quality, and the topics always seem to be closed. I just acquired a Sonos Port because I was excited about adding that capability to my HiFi setup. I was excited about the functionality, and the Port accomplishes the connected and streaming tasks just fine, love the automatic input selection for the Aux input.

But the sound: It’s flat, lacks detail, it even sounds like there is an arbitrary roll-off on high and low frequencies. The imaging is horrible. Music sound “canned” and “lifeless”. For those just using background music while they have a dinner party, you wouldn’t notice. But if you intend to just sit back with a glass of wine and listen to music on purpose, the sound is sorely lacking.

I’m using “good” quality components: vintage Marantz Receiver (restored) and relatively new BW Speakers. I’m not trying compare Spotify to listening to vinyl (which sounds great on my system), but I expected the Port to sound as good or not better than any other digital playback solution I’ve tried:

MacBook Pro using the headphone jack (excellent),
Samsung TV Spotify app (really good)
Echo Dot (Wow! this should not sound better than the Port!)
MacBook Pro using the USB input on a Behringer toy mixer (Also Wow! this should not sound better than the Port!)

It seems they are doing some sort of post-processing of the sound, like compression or limiting. For the price of this thing, it should sound like liquid gold. It’s just a Raspberry-Pi sized computer hooked up to a DAC, so the sound should reflect the price. I’ve read some people say the sound got worse after a recent software update. Since there is no way to manually load a particular version of the software, I’m curious if anyone has any input on that.

Before everyone goes on about some setting, I’ve tried all the possibilities:

Line Out Level (variable and fixed)
EQ (flat and adjusted, only available with variable line-out)
Volume Limit (various levels including the default of 100%).
Reset all settings (switches the Line Out back to variable at volume 100%)

Something I’ve noticed is that when using Line Out Level: Variable, is that if you turn up the EQ bass and treble, it has almost no effect on the sound, unless you reduce the volume down to below 80%. This raised my suspicion that the Port’s software is compressing the sound, perhaps using a soft limiter.

My one theory is that the DSP in Port is the same as the Sonos speakers, and has it been tuned to make small speakers sound good at the sacrifice of clean, flat sound.

I’m curious on other people’s experience with this. I have 20 days remaining to return it, but I’d love to see if this thread stays open long enough to solicit a variety of comments.

Note: I am using the analog output. If you are finding better sound with a DAC that would be interesting. Of course, at this price point, the built-in DAC should sound better, not worse, than the headphone jack of a MacBook Pro.

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Show previous replies

jgatie

Fixed has been confirmed as being bit perfect. Are you sure your comparison playback device is not adding some DSP or equalization of some sort?

As to testing, @ratty actually captured the output and analyzed it. Any changes would have showed up as a non-zero lowest byte in his analysis.

S

smithnycAuthor

Contributor I

I made comparison across multiple devices. In single blind test with another listener, the Port came in last amongst three devices for the same song on Spotify, repeating the test again using a different song in a different genre. I admit this all gets very speculative.

Who knows if an Echo Dot is applying DSP effects to the output, but at that price point, I doubt they are doing anything they don’t have to do. But many people consider the MacBook Pro to have a “really good” analog output, and there were no DSP effects at the time of testing, volume was at 100% on the MacBook and “10” on the Echo Dot. The output from a Samsung TV that doesn’t cost much more than the Port also sounded better. The Samsung Spotify app also provides a convenient way to use Spotify Connect (not to be confused with Sonos hardware of the same name).

Yes, there is speculation here. We also only know what they tell us. What I’m seeking is any advice on how to prove the output is clean and untouched, since such measurement could also be applied to other devices for a more fair comparison. I myself work in software and I know there is vast difference between what I’m actually doing and how that is disseminated to the non-technical public.

Looking through the questions throughout this site, it seems the sound quality issue affects people using the analog output. Paying hundreds more for yet another DAC seems silly, it’s just for Spotify.

This issue could also be the implementation of Spotify within the Port and not the DSP, that is possible. I didn’t try any other sources, because 99% of my music experience is Spotify or records.

ratty

So you’re not actually comparing, based on a controlled input of the same lossless files in each case? (I used FLAC for the sine wave tests.)

Spotify is lossy 320kbps Ogg Vorbis. Different streamers may have different Vorbis decoders. Depending on the streamer’s interface to Spotify they may be taking into account normalisation tags (Sonos doesn’t). They might ‘spice’ the sound up in proprietary ways. (And don’t get me started on MQA.)

All things being equal, different devices could well have differing output levels, and it’s well known that even a tiny difference can affect preference in the listener.

Sorry, but this doesn’t sound like apples with apples at all.

K

Kumar

All things being equal, different devices could well have differing output levels, and it’s well known that even a tiny difference can affect preference in the listener.

Sorry, but this doesn’t sound like apples with apples at all.

The quoted, and the rest of this thread is exactly why a leading forum/site of audio enthusiasts, Hydrogen Audio, does not allow subjective claims for hearing differences to made on their forum, unless backed up by objective tests, preferably controlled single variable double blind listening tests. This, as a terms of service condition.

As an example, Apple lossless is known to deliver slightly higher sound levels at the same volume control setting on kit, compared to Apple lossy. And Apple Music have themselves said that both sound the same in a blind test, when sound levels are matched. So it is quite possible that the higher levels for their lossless streams are to satisfy a user base ignorant of the quoted phenomenon. Who may do a blind test, switching sources, without being aware of this little “trick”.

By the way, all the words used in the opening post for how the sound is off usually become applicable if the sound level differences are as low as 0.1dB, with louder sounding better.

K

Kumar

Echo Dot (Wow! this should not sound better than the Port!)

I use Echo Devices extensively in conjunction with Sonos/third party powered studio monitors via line in jacks, and few believe me when I say that all sound just as good as Connect - not better, just as good. As did the smaller than Dot and equally cheap Chromecast Audio device.

And no one has done a robust blind test proving that any audiophile DAC costing even ten times as much as Connect, can be picked in a similar blind test using analog output on the Connect, with all EQ settings/filters left in flat position on both. Either with high quality headphones or with any speaker pair in a domestic listening environment, though I suspect that it may be possible to hear subtle differences with the headphones if only because they completely remove room acoustics from the frame.

The problem of course is that having spent ten times the amount on the audiophile stuff, there is a pressing psychological need for it to sound better.

I am pretty sure that in the aforesaid, the word Port can be substituted for Connect.

G

Gert_4

Prominent Collaborator I

I am using a Port with the variable analog output sent directly to a power amplifier, therefore I am using the Port’s equalizer.

I think I have noticed, that many times, after I have received a Sonos update, my Port sounds flat and boring.

I have noticed this several times and also complained about this, but now I have found if I reset the equalizer and then re-adjust the equalizer I get the original and more detailed sound back.

I do not know if this is correct and maybe I'm crazy, because there are so many variables in terms of sound, but I now have made it a habit to reset the equalizer after each Sonos update.

K

Kumar

I do not know if this is correct and maybe I'm crazy, because there are so many variables in terms of sound, but I now have made it a habit to reset the equalizer after each Sonos update.

If it works for you and it doesn't cost anything more than a little time to do, what does it matter if it is not correct or is crazy?!

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