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Antoine Bell-Bottoms
Contributor I
May 7, 2016

Line-In Latency/Delay Disable PLAY:5

  • May 7, 2016
  • 193 replies
  • 32092 views
Hey Sonos Engineers!

I know this has been touched upon. I previously submitted this request to support and they encouraged me to share here to keep the conversation going.

Is there any chance we could implement a soft switch for line-in audio to bypass the computer for "delay disable" functionality.

I understand and appreciate the reason for the delay.

However, I'm running turntables through a mixer and into the line-in of the PLAY:5. Can't teach my son to mix records with that delay, and since we're set-up in a communal space, my wife is not too keen on bringing out the old mix monitors. Can you dig it?

Can we figure out a way to manually disable the delay on an individual speaker basis?

Otherwise love the gear!

Thanks!

Here's quote from customer support. Hope it isn't too heavy handed or out of school to post:

"I'm not on the development team, but I personally think that it wouldn't be too hard to implement some kind of soft switch to bypass the computer altogether and pipe line-in audio directly to the amplifiers (something like a computer-controlled solid state IC relay network)."
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    193 replies

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    ratty
    ratty
    September 19, 2016
    I wanted to purchase a reasonable number of Sonos 5 speakers in a real time audio environment. The live music was strictly in a local environment and not dependent on the vagaries of internet and strictly hard wired with 1 gbps Layer 3 Ip switch ports on a private LAN environment. I am really not sure if the current code can still be maintained with an option to opt out for direct connect scenarios to reduce the delay from over 70 msec to around 5 msec. By Sonos being rigid in their approach, it is likely that Sonos will lose large chunk of business which may be up for grabs and it may go to other solution providers which are available in the market place which are as cost effective and give better audio experience. One of them is a Dante solution.
    Sonos is not suitable for such situations, and is not designed for them. The 5ms latency you seek is of the order of the PING time in an uncongested network. Any kind of sustainable audio delivery will require a certain amount of buffering at the receiver end, to ride out variations in packet arrival times. 70ms is a sensible compromise, allowing for several wireless hops in what is, after all, intended to be a multi-room wireless home audio system.
    saikripa
    Lyricist III
    September 19, 2016
    Thank you for your response Ratty. I am not sure if you are a designer but what is being suggested is only an option. Further it is strictly on a closed LAN environment which does not touch the internet and normal delays without traffic is much less than 1 msec consistently end to end so I am not sure what ping times you are referring to. As I said earlier there are ip audio suppliers who are already providing such systems in collaboration with Allen Heath, Bose, AEQ, AKG, Amadeus, Ashly, Behringer, etc., etc.,......
      ratty
      ratty
      September 19, 2016
      A fully wired network with guaranteed bandwidth provision could in theory provide low and predictable latency. However Sonos is designed as a wireless system, where fading and interference can periodically push up latency quite substantially.

      Reducing the buffering to a very low level for public address applications over a dedicated wired network could of course be an option, but it's not Sonos' market at all. In fact Line-In is to some degree a nice-to-have for connecting legacy audio kit (turntables, CD, a phone's 3.5mm, etc.). Sonos' market focus was recently restated as being primarily on online music services (Spotify, Deezer, Apple et al), and voice control.

      And before anyone chips in with the 'well, it would only be a software tweak' observation I have two words: Opportunity Cost. 😉
      saikripa
      Lyricist III
      September 19, 2016
      Hi ratty. Thanks very much for your response. Considering the price range of Sonos 5 I can assure you there is a reasonable market in countries like Australia and potentially very large market in India. I have a huge potential of 40 to 50 speaker system currently I am working on. I am sure there is a very large corporate segment where it can be implemented cost effectively.
        ratty
        ratty
        September 19, 2016
        You may be missing the point.

        It doesn't matter how big the potential market is for large corporate public address systems (and by the way Sonos' internal architecture imposes a limit of 32 devices per system), this simply isn't where Sonos chooses to do business. To devote any attention whatsoever to that segment would divert resources from the market space where Sonos has made its name and strives to continue to be successful.

        I'm no Sonos employee but, to be blunt, in my opinion your needs simply aren't going to be addressed by Sonos. I therefore suggest you focus your search for solutions on other potential suppliers.
        saikripa
        Lyricist III
        September 19, 2016
        I have already resolved he issue of 32 devices in a local environment through two subnets in the worst case scenario, that is not a hurdle, I am already reviewing others do not worry about that
        ratty
        ratty
        September 19, 2016
        For the record you'd not need two subnets, just more than one Sonos system ('household'). Multiple systems can occupy a single subnet.
        John B
        September 19, 2016
        Sonos will certainly lose some business by not meeting this need. Just as they lose some by not supporting Bluetooth. Or Airplay. Or hires audio.

        But overall the company succeeds by focusing all its efforts on being best at what it does, I.e. being a network based, multiroom, multiroom source home audio system.

        You are entitled to ask for the feature you want but I can't see it ever getting near the top of the priority list.
        ratty
        ratty
        September 19, 2016
        Sonos will certainly lose some business by not meeting this need.
        Indeed. My point was that they'd stand to lose even more business by diverting their attention away from the needs of their target market.
        saikripa
        Lyricist III
        September 19, 2016
        Your point taken, John. I think there is a fine distinction in what is being requested. It is not to include every other feature under the Sun, but still maintain wired and wireless options only but broaden the market base. After all how much consumer market spread is possible unless it becomes accessible very cost effectively and internet really becomes cheap across the world, which is not the case.....
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