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Peter Mc
Peter Mc
August 23, 2016
Question

Connect no longer bit-perfect?

  • August 23, 2016
  • 450 replies
  • 29769 views
It looks like the Connect is no longer bit-perfect. Here's my evidence: let's discuss this.

First, I constructed a wav file of pink noise with amplitude ramping up from zero to digital max and back to zero.
I play this through my Connect and record the SPDIF output from the coax output into my PC.
The recording uses a Scarlett 8i6 audio interface set to use the Connect as master clock.
I record into a DAW (Sonar) multiple times - all instances are identical.
However, this recorded signal is not quite the same as the original wav file - it can be up to -21dB different.
See https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8od479xo9hi5el/connect_diff.PNG?dl=1
Note the expanded scale on the difference (third) track.

It looks like the difference gets larger when the signal is larger. To confirm this, I import the
original and difference files into Matlab and plot the raw data (difference vs original). There is clearly audio compression
happening here. See https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1yq6wcqafvnhaj/diff_vs_orig.png?dl=1
The scale is such that digital maximum is 1.

There also appears to be a slight bias when the waveform is negative and the signal is below the
compression threshold. See an expanded version of the previous plot
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9001tl9mkle4wly/diff_vs_orig_zoom.png?dl=1

Happy to answer questions about the method and conclusions.

Cheers, Peter.

p.s. Volume is set to fixed - I haven't tried variable.
In a loopback test (8i6 out from DAW to 8i6 in, no Sonos gear involved), I get bit-perfect cancellation.
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      450 replies

      Show previous replies
      amun
      November 30, 2017
      ...I have introduced a bit perfect Roon zone to the main system.
      What kit did you use for this, please?

      Hi Amun, I will PM you the details so that I don't take this thread out of topic.
      Many thanks...
      Toolio
      Prodigy II
      November 30, 2017
      I have indeed accepted that the Connect is no longer bit perfect and I take that for granted now. It does not bother me as much as before because I have adopted Roon alongside Sonos and I have introduced a bit perfect Roon zone to the main system. I still want to use Sonos for the multiroom sync + Ease of use + Spotify integration. Assuming I can achieve this, these are significant advantages which partly balance out the bit-perfect situation (for me).

      I find the Roon zone sounds great with no tweaking required but I need to tweak the Connect as I am not very happy with the sound..

      Be careful. One of the frequently posting Sonos fanbois here gets quite upset when a Roon is mentioned. He believes any mention of a Roon to be a “hidden agenda.” Oddly, he seems to have nothing against any other apps that permit direct control of Sonos speakers, including Spotify and Tidal. But you’re right, music played through Roon sounds great on Sonos, with the added plus that Roon will downsample higher-bit-rate files that normally won’t play on Sonos.
      jgatie
      jgatie
      November 30, 2017
      It's not Roon I'm against, it is the constant pimping of Roon in threads where it most certainly does not apply. I would say the same about any other product constantly shoehorned into threads where nobody asks about it. Also, use of the term "fanboi"considered insulting and abusive, and often leads to having your posts edited by the mods. Everyone is entitled to their opinion without being subject to personal attacks or use of derogatory terms.
      Toolio
      Prodigy II
      November 30, 2017
      It's not Roon I'm against, it is the constant pimping of Roon in threads where it most certainly does not apply. I would say the same about any other product constantly shoehorned into threads where nobody asks about it. Also, use of the term "fanboi"considered insulting and abusive, and often leads to having your posts edited by the mods. Everyone is entitled to their opinion without being subject to personal attacks or use of derogatory terms.

      I’ve never witnessed “constant pimping of Roon” here. I doubt that I’ve mentioned it more than handful of times over a few years. And I seldom see others mention it. (I have no connection with Roon, other than being a happy paying customer.) However, I do see other services mentioned far more frequently in all manner of discussions, often where nobody “asks” about them. What’s more, I wasn’t aware that somebody must be “asked” about something before it can be mentioned here. Perhaps because this is your opinion only? So, sincerely, I think you’re way off base. Roon is a product that works very well with Sonos, although that is by no means it’s main focus.
      You are the last person who should be criticizing anybody for personal attacks. Your perception of “fanboi” seems a bit overdramatic, particularly since your name was not mentioned in my post. On the other hand, I find posts that say “sigh” in a dismissive manner to be highly insulting. It’s all in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. But thanks for the chuckle.
      jgatie
      jgatie
      November 30, 2017
      Sigh. Glad I could give you a laugh! :8
      Toolio
      Prodigy II
      November 30, 2017
      Sigh. Glad I could give you a laugh! :8

      Here’s something even more laughable. A search of “Roon” reveals it has been mentioned in 17 discussions in this community. Spotify, 1156. In what world does this represent “constant pimping of Roon”?
      jgatie
      jgatie
      November 30, 2017
      Sigh. Glad I could give you a laugh! :8

      Here’s something even more laughable. A search of “Roon” reveals it has been mentioned in 17 discussions in this community. Spotify, 1156. In what world does this represent “constant pimping of Roon”?

      You want to hear something even more laughable? Of those mentions of Roon, I commented negatively on it only once, in a post where it, along with Hi-res and Plex, were all very off-topic to the actual thread title, which was simply asking what kind of NAS to get.

      So much for your "fanboi" who gets "quite upset when a Roon is mentioned" theory. Seems the only over-sensitive one here is you. 😃
      Toolio
      Prodigy II
      November 30, 2017
      Sigh. Glad I could give you a laugh! :8

      Here’s something even more laughable. A search of “Roon” reveals it has been mentioned in 17 discussions in this community. Spotify, 1156. In what world does this represent “constant pimping of Roon”?

      You want to hear something even more laughable? Of those mentions of Roon, I commented negatively on it only once, in a post where it, along with Hi-res and Plex, were all very off-topic to the actual thread title, which was simply asking what kind of NAS to get.

      So much for your "fanboi" who gets "quite upset when a Roon is mentioned" theory. Seems the only over-sensitive one here is you. :D

      I participated in the discussion to which you refer, last week. I mentioned Roon as an an adjunct to what was being discussed, with the intention of being helpful to the original poster. I also mentioned that Roon has the added advantage of allowing higher resolution files to be played in Sonos. You were the only one to get his knickers in a twist over it. In fact you voiced your umbrage twice and rambled on about an “agenda.” ("another case of a poster shoehorning their off-topic agenda into yet another thread"). You just can’t tolerate it when a conversation doesn’t go exactly the way you think it should, can you? Sometimes a discussion is just a discussion, without any agenda, malice or subterfuge intended. That was one of those discussions. However, you seem to think evil lurks everywhere. For your sake, I hope those sentiments are confined to this group. I doubt that anyone is interested, but they can find the discussion here. https://en.community.sonos.com/music-services-and-sources-228994/streaming-from-nas-drive-6794656
      jgatie
      jgatie
      December 1, 2017
      So now a single complaint against a mention of several off-topic items is me getting "quite upset when a Roon is mentioned". I never commented on Roon specifically. Ever. I have nothing at all against Roon. In that post, I actually specifically referred to high resolution "above Redbook" audio, which is a separate issue from Roon. I also never even commented on your mention of Roon here, but you felt the need to bring me up. So I think we all know who's knickers are actually twisted.

      And now it is time to thank you for the laugh! 😃
      Toolio
      Prodigy II
      December 1, 2017
      I never commented on Roon specifically. Ever.

      So the person who earlier today wrote “It's not Roon I'm against, it is the constant pimping of Roon in threads where it most certainly does not apply” is a different jgatie?
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