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Peter Mc
August 23, 2016
Question

Connect no longer bit-perfect?

  • August 23, 2016
  • 450 replies
  • 29769 views
It looks like the Connect is no longer bit-perfect. Here's my evidence: let's discuss this.

First, I constructed a wav file of pink noise with amplitude ramping up from zero to digital max and back to zero.
I play this through my Connect and record the SPDIF output from the coax output into my PC.
The recording uses a Scarlett 8i6 audio interface set to use the Connect as master clock.
I record into a DAW (Sonar) multiple times - all instances are identical.
However, this recorded signal is not quite the same as the original wav file - it can be up to -21dB different.
See https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8od479xo9hi5el/connect_diff.PNG?dl=1
Note the expanded scale on the difference (third) track.

It looks like the difference gets larger when the signal is larger. To confirm this, I import the
original and difference files into Matlab and plot the raw data (difference vs original). There is clearly audio compression
happening here. See https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1yq6wcqafvnhaj/diff_vs_orig.png?dl=1
The scale is such that digital maximum is 1.

There also appears to be a slight bias when the waveform is negative and the signal is below the
compression threshold. See an expanded version of the previous plot
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9001tl9mkle4wly/diff_vs_orig_zoom.png?dl=1

Happy to answer questions about the method and conclusions.

Cheers, Peter.

p.s. Volume is set to fixed - I haven't tried variable.
In a loopback test (8i6 out from DAW to 8i6 in, no Sonos gear involved), I get bit-perfect cancellation.
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    450 replies

    jgatie
    April 18, 2017
    SIgh . . .
    April 19, 2017
    Indeed...
    Enthusiast II
    April 19, 2017
    What is "Sigh" about it?

    Roon is just a way of browsing your music and Tidal etc. and then playing it through Sonos, it adds to the whole 'streaming' experience which is what Sonos is all about.

    I am keeping my Play 5s, one in the kitchen and one in the bedroom and I love them, I have got loads of people to buy them.
    And I have ordered a pair of ceiling speakers for the bathroom to go with my ZP100.

    Just that in the context of this thread, and the fact Roon had been mentioned too, I thought I would say what I have done.


    Such insular thinking and the smarmy smugness that you guys often show really does ruin what could be a good forum, I think the guys on avforums summed you lot up well, they just keep off here, because if you have a different opinion to you lot then you shoot them down.
    It is a shame, I bet in real life you' lot are actually alright.
    Enthusiast II
    April 19, 2017
    Seriously, how could you not like browsing music with this......





    Here it is showing that it is playing in the Lounge to the ZP100...




    It is all about finding new music and enjoying it.
    chicks
    April 19, 2017
    Don't think the sigh was about Roon. However, Roon does require a PC; I for one won't be reintroducing a PC into my playback system anytime soon. Some of the UIs for the streaming providers are nearly as full featured as Roon (I'm fondly remembering Rdio), and once they add Sonos Direct Control, will make Roon even more of a niche product. Don't get me wrong, it's a great product, but 99% of listeners have no need for it.
    Enthusiast II
    April 19, 2017
    The fact I have discovered more music in the last 6 months using Roon than I had in the last 10 years makes the small outlay well worth it.
    To me, that and Tidal have been the best value items I have ever bought for music.

    It just sits on my computer along side Sonos.

    I run Roon Server, so I don't see it on the mac it runs in the background, then run roon remote on my macbook, phones and tablets.
    You can run it on a NAS, NUC etc. too.

    But it has made Sonos better, and it has allowed endpoints like the connect, connect amp etc. for a very low cost, which means I can afford to have more music.
    April 20, 2017

    I'm not knocking the Play 5, I think it is an amazing bit of kit, and a pair can really boogie, but they are extremely coloured (in a good way) compared to even a pair of decent bookshelf speakers.

    A lot of the guys on another forum are swapping their Play units for these.....

    https://www.whathifi.com/q-acoustics/q-bt3/review

    They seem well pleased with them.

    The sigh was about the above, and to the worn out subject of Connect SQ. Every speaker is coloured in some way, to some extent. It is the nature of the beast which is why personal preferences rule for speakers.

    And the 5 unit is coloured even better once it has responded to room acoustics via Trueplay, since it has state of the art tech built into it that lets it do so, unlike passive bookshelf speakers that use tech that is decades older and mostly obsolete now. Which isn't to say that they aren't worthy of consideration in a room where acoustics and speaker placement isn't an issue. Along with messy cabling.

    The BT3 is a good bluetooth speaker but with a limited feature set compared to any Sonos play unit. I did not find it to be extraordinary for sound quality when I was evaluating one for my TV room, to replace a broken down amp. So I preferred to have the amp fixed where it soldiers on with excellent for the application Quad 11L units bought in 2002. But a 1 pair + Sub trumps the 11L easily for my needs of music listening in another zone, and so also, will a 5 pair, I suspect. I certainly don't see any reason to swap out my play unit based set up for any speaker pair I have heard, and I have heard/used several in the past from the usual suspects - Harbeth. Quad, KEF and B&W to name some.

    Of course, as I said, these are subjective things, so I see little value in knowing that some people on another forum think different and prefer the BT3, given that this could be for anything from feature preference to price to sound quality preference. And this has nothing to do with the thread topic.

    Sigh....:D

    The other reason for this, as I see it, is that there are many other places on the net that cater to those that want to discuss equipment churn. Sonos users are usually those that aren't interested in this for a raft of reasons.
    jgatie
    April 20, 2017
    Spot on Kumar. Especially the last part.
    Enthusiast II
    April 20, 2017

    The other reason for this, as I see it, is that there are many other places on the net that cater to those that want to discuss equipment churn. Sonos users are usually those that aren't interested in this for a raft of reasons.


    I don't tend to churn my kit.

    I have just swapped my Meridian DSPs with a small Bel Canto amp and a pair or Martin Logans after 10 years with the DSPs.
    And I wasn't looking to swap, just that I heard the electrostatics the other day and with the kind of music I love I thought they were amazing so thought "Why not? Life is short."


    I forgot that we are not allowed to let the discussions evolve on this forum. I consider myself reprimanded, I'll try my best not to do it in the future.

    It was however in response to you asking...


    Three examples of other speakers that meet your benchmark for audiophile grade?
    April 21, 2017
    I agree that I am just as guilty as anyone else here in allowing myself to stray off topic. Even if the OP does not mind, it makes for a messier forum.
    Which, understandably so, is a place for Sonos users and would be users to discuss/learn how to select, use, trouble shoot and make best use of Sonos products.