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Trending Lyricist I
August 25, 2020

Can I add a DAC to new Sonos Amp?

  • August 25, 2020
  • 41 replies
  • 5759 views

Im currently using my iMac PC as a source using its headphone out to line in on my sonos amp - and am able to get up to a maximum 96khz if im correct?

Can I add a dac such as the iFi Zen DAC to enable me to get higher than 96khz ?

Imac/Zen/dac/Sonos amp/B&W passive speakers

 

Ken

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41 replies

January 21, 2021

“external DACs are a thing for a reason”.  If there is a reason, it is that one DAC may perform better than another one if it replaces it in the process of getting from digital data packets to music you can hear.  Some may dispute this, and my personal opinion is that in many cases the difference ‘heard’ is caused by expectation bias.  But let’s go with it for a moment.

I have a set up that includes a Connect and HiFi.  I use digital out from the Connect into a Cyrus DAC/pre-amp.  So the Connect’s DAC is replaced by the Cyrus one.  This, to me has at least the potential to improve the sound.

But this thread is talking about sample rates etc on a conversion that enters the Sonos system as an analog signal.  This still seems nonsensical to me.

No it isn't,  this is about connecting a DAC as a source. 

I don’t know what that sentence means.  Please excuse my ignorance and explain.

Trending Lyricist I
January 21, 2021

Can I add a dac such as the iFi Zen DAC to enable me to get higher than 96khz ? was the initial question. Although the question has a mistake as SONOS tops at 48/hz The meaning of my answer is  that he can use any external DAC That can read such files or other not supported by SONOS and then send it through the line in. I am adding my personal opinion that oddly it can work in a way that “I” like more than SONOS playing the files or streaming itself.

ratty
January 21, 2021

A chain that includes a 96/192kHz DAC, a 44.1kHz ADC and a 44.1kHz DAC doesn’t strike me as the most unsullied way to go, but each to their own.

Some people swear by vinyl and tube amps, which each adulterate the sound in their own special ways.

January 21, 2021

Can I add a dac such as the iFi Zen DAC to enable me to get higher than 96khz ? was the initial question. Although the question has a mistake as SONOS tops at 48/hz The meaning of my answer is  that he can use any external DAC That can read such files or other not supported by SONOS and then send it through the line in. I am adding my personal opinion that oddly it can work in a way that “I” like more than SONOS playing the files or streaming itself.

I don’t think that makes the DAC the source.  There was no disputing that an analog output from any DAC can be used in the line-in.  Because it’s analog.  What was questioned was the the OP’s apparent belief that the sample rate etc on the original source was going to make a difference.

I am perfectly happy to accept that you subjectively prefer the sound produced to that produced by alternatives.  I suspect we actually agree on much more than we disagree on.

Trending Lyricist I
January 21, 2021

Can I add a dac such as the iFi Zen DAC to enable me to get higher than 96khz ? was the initial question. Although the question has a mistake as SONOS tops at 48/hz The meaning of my answer is  that he can use any external DAC That can read such files or other not supported by SONOS and then send it through the line in. I am adding my personal opinion that oddly it can work in a way that “I” like more than SONOS playing the files or streaming itself.

I don’t think that makes the DAC the source.  There was no disputing that an analog output from any DAC can be used in the line-in.  Because it’s analog.  What was questioned was the the OP’s apparent belief that the sample rate etc on the original source was going to make a difference.

I am perfectly happy to accept that you subjectively prefer the sound produced to alternatives.  I suspect we actually agree on much more than we disagree on.

Yes, what I mean is that is not the sampling rate, is the DAC itself and its quality or the way it handles files that SONOS cannot handle that would make a difference, there is a lot to know about the AMP design so I feel pity that everybody has turned this question into a HI-Re vs Redbook when it is not.

In fact we should relate this  to a different eternal Hi-Fi debate, if separates are better, although I am not unaware that SONOS is a digital amp and converts everything to DIGITAL, my hypothesis is that I found that the streaming section of the amp can be bettered off by the line in despite adding an extra analog to digital in the way. 

ratty
January 21, 2021

Playing local files, or streaming from an online source, requires a decode. After decode, the audio would be in PCM, the same as the output of a Line-In ADC. If the latter sounds ‘better’ then it calls into question the quality of the original content encoding (or, in the case of local files, of any CD ripping).

FWIW adding an extra analog to digital (or DA) conversion can only degrade the sound. It’s impossible to improve it, unless of course there a subjective preference for any ‘colour’ (distortion, noise) introduced.

Trending Lyricist I
January 21, 2021

Playing local files, or streaming from an online source, requires a decode. After decode, the audio would be in PCM, the same as the output of a Line-In ADC. If the latter sounds ‘better’ then it calls into question the quality of the original content encoding (or, in the case of local files, of any CD ripping).

FWIW adding an extra analog to digital (or DA) conversion can only degrade the sound. It’s impossible to improve it, unless of course there a subjective preference for any ‘colour’ (distortion, noise) introduced.

Wonderfull! How do I improve it? I love the placebo police. Don’t you think I did not think about it? So what do I change? The ripping software? The hard drive? The Router? Have you seen the price of a so call audiophile wireless unit? Following that path will end up in an audiophile nonsense race that you criticise so much, specially because I do not know if the so call colouration may come from the AMP itself while decoding or better said transferring the music files. I am actually in agreement of your statement, it shouldn’t but it does at my home. It is actually way cheaper wiring the SONOS straight with a cheap DAC an enjoy it that trying to answer the questions you are making, I am not Amirm from audio science review I just answer as an amp owner the primary question of this thread. I am sorry if you do not like my answer because it doesn't fit to your logic, it doesn't fit mine either but I just drop it. I reiterate my first stamens that you will not get Hi-Re but the reading of whatever the guy wants to fetch from his laptop may actually play better “for him” in that way. 

ratty
January 21, 2021

No ‘audiophool’ snake oil required. A secure ripper will make a better -- possibly even perfect -- transfer of the music data off the CD. This has been well known for a long time. Lossless compression retains all the original data. Also a well established fact.

But do whatever appeals to your senses. If you prefer a euphonic colouration introduced by your DAC then by all means insert it into the chain. 

Trending Lyricist I
January 21, 2021

I do not need you wise help to tell me that. If u wanna patronise you better research what you are talking about, it is said that the SONOS amp uses a Qualcomm chipset, this chipset doesn't need a DAC I actually researched that but its got its own processing because it has to implement the SONOS software to convert the streaming into analog out for the speakers. The details of this part are unknown so I won't speculate any further unlike you who speak like you designed it. You have to prove me in testing how good this process is before saying with so much arrogant security that this processing in the digital domain is indeed superior or less coloured or produce less jitter and so it goes to the one made in hardware by the separated DAC that SONOS should have implemented in the Analog in. So much people talking like audiophiles about the purity of sound path when nobody has opened the device to work out what that path is. Finally the AMP is not a speaker is an amp with Streaming, HDMI in and Analog in your security that there is no difference in the inputs quality or affirming that the streaming part is “the best one and shorter play path” is as arrogant as turntable owners arguing about the best MC cartridge. I will not use the word coloration to describe my experience because I do not pretend to know what goes inside the amp unlike you.

 

ratty
January 21, 2021

This discussion was about the merits of adding an extra digital-analog-digital stage on the front of whatever goes on inside a player. As I said, if you subjectively feel the effect is more ‘musical’ then go right ahead.