Lost surround and sub ( after update ?)


Userlevel 3

Hi 

I don’t know if my issue is related to the 14.6 update but I noticed today that I had no sound from my surround (play 3) and my sub (Gen 2), only the Arc is working They are still present in the app under the my System view but now sound which every sources

When I reboot each of them, the sound comes back temporary, but when I switch to another source or audio format, thé Sound disappears again. Tried several times, same behavior

Thanks for your help

 

Corry P 3 months ago

Hello all,

Today, we released a software update (14.10) that includes targeted improvements on audio synchronization for home theater surrounds and Subs. If you have been experiencing delayed audio or dropouts to your surrounds or sub, this update should address your issue. We encourage you to update your system to the latest software release and to retest your system. 

If you continue to experience issues after this upgrade, please contact Sonos Support so we can help identify your specific issue and work to resolve it. 

Thank you for your continued engagement with the Sonos community. We understand any disruption to your experience is frustrating.  The Sonos team is committed to resolving any issue you experience so you can continue to enjoy your music and listening in the seamless manner you should expect.

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Userlevel 7
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Hello all,

Today, we released a software update (14.10) that includes targeted improvements on audio synchronization for home theater surrounds and Subs. If you have been experiencing delayed audio or dropouts to your surrounds or sub, this update should address your issue. We encourage you to update your system to the latest software release and to retest your system. 

If you continue to experience issues after this upgrade, please contact Sonos Support so we can help identify your specific issue and work to resolve it. 

Thank you for your continued engagement with the Sonos community. We understand any disruption to your experience is frustrating.  The Sonos team is committed to resolving any issue you experience so you can continue to enjoy your music and listening in the seamless manner you should expect.

Userlevel 3
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I’ve also emailed Chris Welch at The Verge (welch@theverge.com) to hopefully increase the visibility of this issue.  I encourage others on this thread to do the same.


Hi Chris,
 
I am hoping to bring to your attention an issue that is affecting Sonos home theater users since the introduction of the 14.6 firmware on April 19th. This issue is a serious audio desync/dropout issue resulting in echoing of Subs and Surrounds attached to the Arc, as well as full drop outs.  I and many others have suffered with this issue for over a month — an issue which makes my home theater system completely unusable given the only way to stop the echoing is to unplug my devices roughly every 10-15 minutes when attempting to watch a movie.  There's a 20+ page thread on this issue here:
 
 
A Sonos engineer (Corry P) acknowledged the issue on May 2nd, only to walk that statement back 2 days later:
 
 

Edit, May 4th: Hi all, I was a bit premature with posting the original best answer message in this topic. While we have been investigating Topilouf’s issue, we have not seen an increase in surround audio errors and do not see anything that suggests that you all will experience the same issue following the recent update. If you do experience issues while listening to your Sonos system, we always encourage you to contact us and we will do our utmost to support you.

Hi All

Just to let you all know, we have now identified an issue whereby some Sonos Home Theatre satellites will experience audio interruptions after the latest 14.6 update.

We are investigating the situation and hope to resolve it soon. At present, we have no further information to share.

I hope this helps.

Since then, the only statement from Sonos has been that audio dropouts can occur and to contact support (James L. on May 23rd):

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/lost-surround-and-sub-after-update-6868561/index19.html?postid=16594139#post16594139

Hi all,

We understand the frustration any customer feels when your experience isn’t what it should be.

We equally understand the frustrations around and apologise for the recent communications that have led to confusion about the 14.6 update.

Please be assured that your listening experience, the sound quality, and the performance of our products is and will remain our absolute priority.

If you experience a dropout or any other issue on your system, please contact support with your diagnostic report from within 10 minutes of the drop-out occurring and we will look into it right away.

There are different reasons why drop outs may occur, and we want to make sure that we can help you.

Seeing as this topic is not resolved for those commenting, I have removed the ‘best answer’ until further notice.

Sonos customers have been struggling with this issue that has effectively made our home theater systems useless since the firmware update was released last month.  We've spent countless hours talking to L1, L2, and L3 support staff and submitted countless diagnostic reports to no avail. Without direct acknowledgement of this issue, introduced in 14.6, there can be no certainty that it will *ever* be addressed.  Since you've covered Sonos in the past at The Verge, I'm hoping you'd be willing to report on this issue as escalation through Sonos' normal customer support path appears to lead to a dead end.  As for myself, I've moved on, making the painful decision to replace all of my Sonos hardware with Bluesound, but I still want to see this issue addressed for everyone else out there, especially those who may not even notice when their subwoofer drops out randomly.
 
Cheers.
 
Userlevel 4
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Hi @Corry P and @James L.,

 

I’d like to request an update and/or additional assistance on this thread.

Of the few users who have managed to jump through all the hoops to be escalated to L3 support, all have said the trail goes cold from Sonos while waiting to be contacted except for 1 user. That user said they’d recently been contacted and felt the issue would be resolved soon but said they couldn’t share details.

For myself, I haven’t made it that far because it is very difficult to find an overlap between my availability, Sonos support’s operating hours, and the issue actually being present on my system. My free time and tv watching time just doesn’t align with support hours very often.

If Sonos could corroborate the report of the user who said a fix is coming, I would stop worrying about it. If not I’d like to keep trying to work with support, however have the following request: Assuming that Sonos must have a team investigating this issue based on the overwhelming body of contribution from the affected user base, can you give us a playbook to streamline the support process? Every time a support rep asks me to try something I’m not immediately prepared to do, the call ends and I have to wait another few weeks until I’m prepared and have the opportunity to call back. It would also be extremely helpful to work with a support rep who has good awareness of this reported issue and a side door to such a staff member would be sooooo appreciated!!! If Sonos truly cares about the users here, we need you to help us better.

 Thanks for your consideration

Userlevel 6
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if this is truly fixed I will be thrilled. I hope you’ll all join me in the support group I’ll create for “people who always touch their subwoofer when walking by it to make sure its working”

Userlevel 3
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In terms of the packet drop scenario, here is a screenshot below (of the ARC metrics) after a reboot this morning and leaving a movie running in the background. 

Although I am not sure what device br0 is, its the one with the most TX/RX during playing the movie and constantly incremented - which you would expect and means it the most likely communicator during HT operation. 

Strangely, the TX (transmit) looks to have no drops in the 1.1GB of data that was sent. However, the RX (receive) has 29% packet drop but only 44MB of data sent. 

Again, I don't know if this is normal or what the RX is used for - presumably some heartbeat or sync comms between the units? But this is what I am seeing - whether its is part of this issue or not I do not know. 

 

br0 = bridge interface 0.

Under the hood, a Sonos speaker runs Linux. It has an Ethernet interface (eth0) and two Atheros wireless interfaces (ath0, ath1), corresponding to the 2.4 and 5.8 ghz wifi bands.

However…

The Sonos system has no opinion about it’s Ethernet or Wireless communications setup. The operating system creates a bridge (br0) that combines all three interfaces into a single flat network and all communications are done over that. When data is sent to br0, it is dumped into the corresponding physical interface by the operating system at a lower level than the Sonos system.

The drop count in that bridge don’t look like an issue to me. Frames can be dropped for any number of reasons, especially on a wireless network, especially when in a bridge scenario (duplicate frames, corrupt frames, etc). 

Honestly, I really can’t see how this is a networking issue. Sonos support reflexively saying otherwise is most likely because yes, most of the time, people with drop-out problems -are- in fact having networking issues. 

This issue is almost certainly farther up the chain. My guess is it’s in the actual code that Sonos implements to provide sync between speakers coming off the “master” device (Arc, etc), or possibly in the decoding itself. Specifically, if the Arc is having issues decoding incoming audio to PCM it can’t possibly send valid PCM back out to your surround components. Corrupt incoming data would most likely present itself as silence.

Case in point: when I have drops, I can still see my ethernet switch status lights blinking to indicate that data is being sent to the silent speakers (my setup is 100% ethernet). This strongly implies data is being sent and is arriving at the drop-out, but the speaker itself just isn’t playing it. To me, this sounds like bad data rather than bad transport of good data.

TL;DR: 99:1 we’re stuck waiting on Sonos to figure out what the issue is on their end and waiting for a fix. I really don’t think there are any ‘user serviceable’ components of this issue that we can tweak to improve/diagnose the problem.

 

Userlevel 7
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Edit, May 4th: Hi all, I was a bit premature with posting the original best answer message in this topic. While we have been investigating Topilouf’s issue, we have not seen an increase in surround audio errors and do not see anything that suggests that you all will experience the same issue following the recent update. If you do experience issues while listening to your Sonos system, we always encourage you to contact us and we will do our utmost to support you.

Hi All

Just to let you all know, we have now identified an issue whereby some Sonos Home Theatre satellites will experience audio interruptions after the latest 14.6 update.

We are investigating the situation and hope to resolve it soon. At present, we have no further information to share.

I hope this helps.

 

Userlevel 3

I’m sad that we as users having to go through multiple troubleshooting steps, resets, messing around with our internet setups when it’s not our fault whereas the company who pushed the buggy update is just sitting and watching this unfold.

Userlevel 6
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the nature of the issue is so inconsistent I won’t really believe it’s fixed until I’ve had a week of no issues. I’ve also now developed an annoying habit of touching my subwoofer whenever I walk by it to make sure it’s working 

Userlevel 3
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Now that we’re all back up and running, doesn't the SONOS system sound great?!  haha… “Update Automatically” = OFF.  

As mentioned previously, this community thread played a BIG role in the issue being resolved so to all, thanks again!

Userlevel 2

Just an update to anybody who thinks this may be a Wifi/ISP fault, today I moved into a new place and I now have both a new ISP and a wireless router (Asus RT-AX86U). I decided I would factory reset all of my Sonos equipment and delete the app from my phone for a completely fresh start. I set up the new Wifi equipment, downloaded the Sonos app and proceeded to set up my Arc, Sub and One SL surrounds. I also have a new TV (Sony A80J 77”) Everything was working fine for a couple of hours, I changed input then bam, the sub and surrounds dropped. FFS.

 

Anyone who thinks this is anything other than a Sonos Firmware issue is kidding themselves, Sonos denying the problem or being unable to replicate the problem is a complete joke. It’s no coincidence these issues occurred after 14.6. 

Userlevel 1
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Wish I could like this comment 100 times. All possible networking troubleshooting ideas have been attempted. Doesn’t fix anything. Happens on all possible networking configuration for those of us affected. 

Getting flashbacks to the v7.4 update fiasco 4 years ago (lost channels). At least then the response was “Oh maybe something is wrong” early on.

The story for everyone here seems to be : No changes made, no crazy configurations, recommended Sonos deployment/installation, everything rock solid for months, now BOOM. The only difference? What seems to be a turd of an update that walked into my living room and has caused nothing but annoyance for 3 weeks and counting.

Userlevel 3
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@Corry P  Really shocked that Sonos havn’t been able to reproduce the issue, just feels like a deflection to not be held accountable. I would recommend they take a few of the TV’s on this spreadsheet of users suffering from the issue and test Arc & Surrounds with that - and follow the user notes of how to trigger the issue. (AppleTV start netflix/amazon trailers, start netflix/amazon shows, Youtube then repeat on internal apps)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q6Iq2xXXZ--RmnsGnbZhujxJj1BcwJlvqSzj5iZXz2U/edit?usp=sharing

Not a single user has said ‘Sonos support fixed my issue by doing X with my system/network’. This is clearly a software issue. It’s also very likely that only a portion of Arc users are suffering as some don’t have surrounds/subs, some don’t change sources often, some power cycle every day, or some don’t even notice.

For the first time since this saga started, yesterday I started googling alternative home theatre setups, and stopped myself because I still have faith in Sonos as a brand and really do love their products. Hearing you’ve been unable to reproduce the issue, and thus, are clearly not working on a fix makes me feel like I really do have to start looking at alternatives.

Userlevel 3
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Hi all,

We appreciate the ongoing engagement around your setups, your experiences and the issues you’re having with your systems.

Please bear in mind that updating a system can occasionally surface an issue that hadn't manifested previously, and that this does not mean the issue was caused by the update. Additionally, submitting a diagnostic can also sometimes cause interruptions during the submission, and for a few minutes afterwards. 

For each case submitted, the Sonos team works on isolating the issue and replicating anything out of the ordinary. Many of you have already been in contact with support to get help. Thank you, that is the best route to get your specific issue addressed most quickly. As always, the Sonos team continues to work to optimize the Sonos user experience and resolve the root cause of the problems discussed here. If you have not already contacted Support directly, please do and share a diagnostic report from within 10 minutes of the issue occurring on your system. This helps the Sonos team verify the symptoms and determine the cause of the specific issue you are contacting about. 

At this time, we have been unable to reproduce the reported issue related to the recent update, which seems to affect a very small proportion of the total number of Arc and Beam users. We understand this is frustrating and are committed to working with each of you to resolve any issues you are experiencing. Our shared goal is to ensure a smooth and effortless experience with your Sonos system.

You can contact support via phone from Monday to Friday 10am - 8:30pm ET or by chat 24/7 via the Sonos Digital Assistant on the Sonos Support Site.
 

I’m sorry @Corry P , but this is nothing short of ridiculous. There are hundreds of Arc users that have satellite speakers of some description, that have gone from having a stable system to all suffering exactly the same issues after the 14.6 update, regardless of TV model, network condition, and any number of other variables. You’re saying that Sonos cannot replicate the issue. That means one of two things, 1. That’s not true and you’re trying to deflect due to the implications of admitting responsibility, or 2. The team you have working on it are completely inept and are in no way up to the task of troubleshooting something extremely basic.

Either way, my faith in Sonos in a company is rapidly eroding, and I speak as someone who has invested heavily in your products over the years. That way that this is being dealt with is a huge slap in the face to loyal customers.

Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Hi all,

We appreciate the ongoing engagement around your setups, your experiences and the issues you’re having with your systems.

Please bear in mind that updating a system can occasionally surface an issue that hadn't manifested previously, and that this does not mean the issue was caused by the update. Additionally, submitting a diagnostic can also sometimes cause interruptions during the submission, and for a few minutes afterwards. 

For each case submitted, the Sonos team works on isolating the issue and replicating anything out of the ordinary. Many of you have already been in contact with support to get help. Thank you, that is the best route to get your specific issue addressed most quickly. As always, the Sonos team continues to work to optimize the Sonos user experience and resolve the root cause of the problems discussed here. If you have not already contacted Support directly, please do and share a diagnostic report from within 10 minutes of the issue occurring on your system. This helps the Sonos team verify the symptoms and determine the cause of the specific issue you are contacting about. 

At this time, we have been unable to reproduce the reported issue related to the recent update, which seems to affect a very small proportion of the total number of Arc and Beam users. We understand this is frustrating and are committed to working with each of you to resolve any issues you are experiencing. Our shared goal is to ensure a smooth and effortless experience with your Sonos system.

You can contact support via phone from Monday to Friday 10am - 8:30pm ET or by chat 24/7 via the Sonos Digital Assistant on the Sonos Support Site.
 

Hi @Corry P 

I do just want to add a few things - not to fuel any fires but to make sure there is some clarity.

Some of this problem is that people are contacting support and going through (the sometimes multiple hour) process of diagnostics Sonos suggest. This is usually started with 1st or 2nd line Customer Care. When it is apparent that the issue is more complex, it then gets escalated to Engineering. For me at least, this is where the trail goes quiet and no further updates are forthcoming. 

I have two current threads of contact - One was from an email I sent to Patrick Spence (who referred to 2nd Line Customer Experience who reached out to me) and the other is via my case where we went through several hours of diagnostics and was eventually escalated to Engineering. The former stopped communicating on the 2nd of June and the latter stopped communicating on the 26th of May. So there is a problem where impacted users are following the process, but it does not progress to users and Sonos Engineers working with each other in a timely and collaborative manner. This, in turn, becomes a frustration point for many and leads to increasingly escalating threads like this. 

Within this thread there is a lot of information regarding what users have tried (including new networking, hard-wiring everything, flicking features on/off, etc) and it bears little to no fruit. I am happy to accept that this is a nuanced situation and agree first hand that its not easy to understand the root-cause. But something happened in April which directly or indirectly affected the performance of Sonos equipment.

Without a proper engagement between user and engineering, there is little chance of this getting resolved. We are being pointed in that direction, but that is also where it stops. The commitment statement from Sonos is out of alignment with what is actually being experienced by effected users. 

Lastly, I am happy to commit time with an Engineer to go through the issue if that would be helpful. 

Thanks,
Brad

Userlevel 3
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It’s not an excuse but live chats are almost always with 1st tier support people and they very rarely are much better at providing service than someone who is just reading the available documentation for you (which of course, most of us can do ourselves anyways).

I feel like what we really need is some acknowledgement from Sonos on an engineering level that this is an issue they are actually working on fixing. It’s clearly a problem, clearly an issue that appeared with the latest firmware, and clearly not just “networking” issues that have somehow all appeared at the same time for all of us. 

Until the engineers (not support staff) weigh in, we are really just ‘hoping’ that a fix is coming.

 

Just an FYI, I spoke to tier 3 support. The issue has been acknowledged internally and they are working on a fix but there is no ETA yet.

Userlevel 6
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still no dropouts for me since 14.10

Userlevel 1

Hi Corry,

but that can not be serious, reddit is full of error messages as well as several hifi forums on the net. What actually all or most messages have in common is that the problems occurred after the last update. 

Userlevel 4
Badge +2

just chiming in quickly to say my system has still been stable since 14.10. I’m still touching my subwoofer occasionally though 

Me too - my system has been solid since the Sonos voice update except for one drop out that occurred after a neighborhood power outage. Installed 14.10 today and even though I had no drops since the voice update except for power outage, I sense a better sound overall. Still touching subs, ears to surrounds, etc. though - paranoid about it.

While I appreciate Sonos is being more forthcoming as to what is going on and regaining stability for the customers who purchased their products, it’s still obvious (in my mind) that 14.6 messed something up, To be fair, I’m sure is hard to diagnose on their part given all the various systems/factors.

Still, I personally spent $400 on a new Asus wifi mesh to replace my old Orbi system because of this mess. Spent another $90+ on a Sonos boost, and like everyone else, spent a lot of time submitting diagnostics, talking to support, trying everything possible…

Don’t regret the Asus purchase, it’s better than my old Orbi mesh, and I can sell the Boost (anyone interested?) but still, I might have held off spending $500+ if Sonos had just acknowledged the problem and said, “we’re working on it” or “investigating it”.

What I’ve read is that they still say 14.6 had nothing to do with it. I’m not buying that explanation, but I’m glad it’s been resolved. Automatic updates are off permanently. 😀

Userlevel 5
Badge +3

Seriously, SONOS....loved this system, but this is ridiculous. It ran fine before the update and many updates before that. No equipment has changed. It's been long enough. You say you can't roll back because the uodate adds new equipment. To hell with your new equipment. Stop the launch of the equipment, roll back the update, rewrite the code for your new equipment, update, see if there is an issue. If there is an issue keep rolling back and try again until you fix it, THEN LAUNCH YOUR NEW PRODUCT. I don't give a rat's ass about the new crap....I paid for this crap!

Userlevel 6
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it definitely seems fixed now. cheers everyone! thank you for commiserating with me and helping to troubleshoot

Userlevel 3
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Would it help if we all filled in this table of information so we can see what setup we have in common? Even if people who have never had the issue fill it in so we can see where our systems differ?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q6Iq2xXXZ--RmnsGnbZhujxJj1BcwJlvqSzj5iZXz2U/edit?usp=sharing

Userlevel 3
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So, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet. For me what works as a quick reset is to stop and start the wifi on the arc. 

I have it hard wired, and turning of and then back on allways gets me the sub and surrounds back.

FYI, is have an LG B8, a shield tv pro 2019 , an arcana hdfury and an arc with two subs and two symfonisk lights. 

 

Userlevel 6
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I had a hunch last night that maybe my network switches in my environment could be exacerbating the issue so I completely changed my set up to remove them. Nevertheless I just experienced the drop out again just now so that’s moot point

im so tired of testing and debugging this. I’m just going to stick with my workarounds for now and keep an eye on firmware updates. I appreciate everyone’s help in this thread but I have to dip out of here for my own sanity. 

i hope Sonos can figure this out 

Userlevel 3
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Also, I find it very provocative of Sonos to state that they want us to file more diagnostics. It has been 4 weeks+. Don’t they have all the diagnostics they need to fix it by now?

It feels more like they are deflecting and trying to blame it on their customers.

Userlevel 3
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there’s also “Hey Sonos” coming soon

“Hey Sonos, can you rollback my devices to 14.5” 😉

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