I've been living with lip sync issues (audio behind the video) since I got my Playbar about a year ago but I finally decided to do something about it. After multiple conversations with Sonos support and the LG's support people (they kept blaming each other for the audio delay), I decided to email Sonos' CEO about the issue.
After a few hours, I got a reply back from him, CCing a team manager who was going to look into the issue. We scheduled a call and he had me send various diagnostics to him. He said that the engineering team was going to investigate and get back to me.
A week later, I got an update. He told that they are still working on the issue. He also said that only one other person had reported the same issue (I assume that means that only one other person with an LG TV). So, if you're having audio delay issues and you've tried all other troubleshooting, reach out to Sonos support and have them look into it. If it helps you might mention my reference number, which has already been escalated:
Keep in mind that my setup is pretty straight forward (LG C6 OLED TV connected directly to the Playbar via Optical, audio playing from the built-in apps) and every single thing LG and Sonos suggested, including going into the TV's service menu and changing things there.
I know there are multiple post on the topic so hopefully we can solve at least some of the issues causing audio delay.
If you're experiencing audio delay issues, read this
+2
Just had a long conversation with samsung regarding audio delay/lipsync problems for them to turn round snd say there just not compatible thats there reply £3000 spent for them to not be compatible.
I take it the playbar operates standalone, rather than being bonded with surrounds... how does it do when outputting PCM audio from the TV?
Sonos, can you please help us?
Unfortunate. You’d still be able to use an HDMI switch to pull the audio out before it reaches the circuitry of the Samsung, and use your Sonos, though. Slightly less neat, but a better chance of not tossing the investment.
I've been living with lip sync issues (audio behind the video) since I got my Playbar about a year ago but I finally decided to do something about it. After multiple conversations with Sonos support and the LG's support people (they kept blaming each other for the audio delay), I decided to email Sonos' CEO about the issue.
After a few hours, I got a reply back from him, CCing a team manager who was going to look into the issue. We scheduled a call and he had me send various diagnostics to him. He said that the engineering team was going to investigate and get back to me.
A week later, I got an update. He told that they are still working on the issue. He also said that only one other person had reported the same issue (I assume that means that only one other person with an LG TV). So, if you're having audio delay issues and you've tried all other troubleshooting, reach out to Sonos support and have them look into it. If it helps you might mention my reference number, which has already been escalated:
Keep in mind that my setup is pretty straight forward (LG C6 OLED TV connected directly to the Playbar via Optical, audio playing from the built-in apps) and every single thing LG and Sonos suggested, including going into the TV's service menu and changing things there.
I know there are multiple post on the topic so hopefully we can solve at least some of the issues causing audio delay.
Incredible to me that 3 YEARS LATER this is still an issue. What’s the deal, Sonos?!
My situation… I have an LG 55C7P OLED TV. I have three peripheral devices connected to it via the C7’s HDMI inputs -- a DirecTV box, 4K AppleTV and a 4K Blu-Ray player.
My Sonos Arc Soundbar (along with Sonos Subwoofer and two Sonos Ones as rears) is connected using the HDMI-ARC port on my TV. I continue to have major audio sync issues with all three peripheral devices when they’re playing content with Dolby Digital or Dolby Atmos audio. There are no sync issues when I use the LG TV’s internal apps. The only way I can get rid of the sync issues is by switching the peripheral devices to PCM, but that, of course, defeats the purpose of having this INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE SOUND SYSTEM I BOUGHT THAT DOESN’T WORK WITH A TOP LINE TV!
I may try the HD Fury Arcana, although they tell me I need to also purchase one of their 4K HDMI switchers, which isn’t an ideal solution because, 1) it means I can’t adjust the video for each device since they’ll all be going into the same input on the TV, and 2) between the Arcana and the HDMI switcher we’re talking another $600!!!
So, two questions for SONOS, or for anyone here who might be able to help me solve this.
- Is Sonos planning on FINALLY, at long last, providing some sort of firmware update to the Sonos Arc soundbar (and their other soundbars) to fix this audio sync issue? I’m assuming the answer is no, but hey, I’d love to be wrong.
- Short of that, I’m considering upgrading my TV to a 65”. What TV’s, preferably an OLED type, work best with the Sonos sound system. I.E., they have ZERO audio sync issues? Can Sonos provide a LIST of TV’s that work best with the Arc Soundbar? Or, how about a list of TV’s that DON’T work with the Arc Soundbar? That feels like a reasonable request. (A Sonos rep I spoke to told me, on the sly, that the new Samsungs do not have issues. But then I read about all kinds of Samsungs that do. Has that changed?)
Thanks so much in advance for any help and thoughts on what I should do next. -- Ian
Believe it or not, this is actually an hdmi ARC protocol issue. The ARC standard does not mandate lip syncing and thus is not widely supported, or if it is, it's implemented differently among manufacturers. When you want to pass surround sound via Hdmi ARC, it must be done via bitstream (compressed audio such as 5.1 dolby digital) since arc does not support pcm uncompressed 5.1 (it is sent as two-channel stereo instead due to arc bandwidth limitations and other reasons I may be unaware of).
So if you want any audio delay issues to be 99% of the time fixed while utilizing Hdmi ARC / passthrough, you must send it as PCM two-channel audio. This is the downside of Hdmi ARC...it can introduce audio delays since when your TV has processed both the video and audio, it sends the compressed dolby digital or dts (both bitstream) to the audio receiver / sound bar and does not know how long that receiver or Soundbar will take to process that audio. Therefore, it is not uncommon for the audio to actually come after the video.
Unfortunately, most TVs are not able to delay the video to sync up with the delayed audio except for some very modern tvs (I believe samsung has a couple models that do this... They can delay both audio or video...so an audio delay and negative delay to match the video coming before the audio).
I am not sure why all TVs are able to delay audio but not the video since HDMI ARC has this common issue and nobody wants to output PCM uncompressed audio to their Soundbar receiver as it can only be passed through as two channel audio. It solves the issue of audio delay since the TV knows when it has processed each of the video and audio and can send both out at the same time and the receiver or sound bar simply has to then play the audio, rather than decompressing it from Dolby digital to output to its speakers as the directly playable pcm.
To add to my earlier comment here and a mini guide on audio formats that is easier to understand (hopefully) than browsing websites and various forums to save people days on end:
1. eARC solves these issues. Lip syncing / AV sync is mandated for this standard.
2. If you did somehow have delay issues (unlikely), even with this mandated lip syncing support among all eARC devices, you could correct this by sending PCM on as uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1 audio over the eARC standard as it has higher bandwidth and can support all uncompressed audio formats and even lossless formats such as True HD decompressed and sent as PCM afaik.
So basically, eARC will allow all of us to send whatever kind of audio we want and still maintain our source channels, whether it be 5.1, 7.1, etc, due to higher standards and bandwidth. I am unknowledgeable on this however as it relates to higher channel inputs/outputs above 7 channel though. No longer will it matter what settings we want to use as the input/output (with my exception above regarding my lack of knowledgeable above 7 channel) as on the other side it should always work in theory.
For people who aren't able to follow due to having a hard time understanding this...as it currently stands:
PCM means you are taking your compressed Dolby Digital or DTS format and decompressing it ("larger size" now) to send over a cable (HDMI ARC or optical) to your output device (sound bar, audio receiver, surround, etc.) at that larger size of data. Since the TV is processing both the video and audio, it knows how to time both of these and audio sync delays delays are not likely.
Bitstream means you are simply sending your compressed Dolby Digital or DTS format and sending it through to your output device (sound bar, audio receiver, surround, etc.) over HDMI ARC or optical. This supports more outputs and formats without 5.1 being converted to 2.1 since more cables can handle data that is compressed / "a smaller size". It is the surround receiver / sound bar that then converts this compressed audio, which is why we may have an audio delay on our tvs since the TV does not know how long this other device will take to process the audio (unless that device shares how long it is taking to process the audio, as is mandated by the eARC protocol).
Optical and ARC:
- Supports stereo
- Supports "compressed" dolby digital 5.1 (aka bitstream option - i.e. sending the compressed signal as is)
- Supports "compressed" dolby digital plus and DTS 5.1 (aka bitstream option - i.e. sending the compressed signal as is)
- If you have a dolby digital or DTS 5.1 source and you choose to output as PCM over optical or ARC, it will output as stereo since the cable / standard doesn't support a PCM (i.e. uncompressed) signal due to bandwidth and limitations of the standard) - this PCM option however will resolve lip sync issues since the TV is sending the audio to the surround receiver/sound bar all "ready to go and play" as it's already been processed by the TV and that surround receiver / sound bar simply has to play the signal (assuming you haven't used any crazy effects that add on to that output) without doing anything to it.
eARC:
- Supports pretty much everything necessary today
Just don't get confused with compressed and uncompressed with lossy and lossless. Two different things. Compressed audio is simply like a zip file on a computer. All of the data is still in that folder, just a smaller compressed size. The zip file would be like a dolby digital or dts format. Uncompressed audio would be one of those zip files (dolby digital or dts) being extracted into their actual audio files (PCM), which are actually directly usable by the computer or in this case, the audio output device, whether it be a sound bar or surround receiver. Lossy audio files (dolby digital, dolby digital plus, dts) are like jpg images. Lossless audio files are like Tiff, raw, dng, png images (Dolby True HD, DTS-HD). An exception is Dolby Atmos, which is more of a channel type / extension that allows for height and spatial sound that doesn't rely on traditional channels.
Hope this helps all novices since it took me awhile to grasp everything!
So eARC would solve my lip sync issues? I would consider returning my Philips TV for a model with eARC if it solves my issues.
That's the idea of mandatory lip sync correction in eARC so it SHOULD, but I have not used it yet and technology is never perfect. Maybe others will chime in or you can find some videos about it.
Has ANYONE been able to successfully use the Sonos Arc as advertised for AtmosDD+ or even DD 5.1 content via external devices (Roku, AppleTV, Xbox, PS, BluRay) routed through ARC/eARC without experiencing punishing lip sync audio delays?
It seems like everyone’s experience boils down to one of these unsatisfactory outcomes
- I use splitter device so I can bypass TV and send my digital audio straight to my Sonos (negating the simplicity of Sonos’ design)
- I only use my TV’s internal streaming apps (which seem to be able to pass Atmos to the Arc without audio delay issues)
- I’ve turned off digital bitstream and am just using PCM (killing Atmos and just giving you stereo)
- I fiddle with the audio delay settings on the TV (if it even goes in the right direction) which works sometimes but of course the delay depends on the type of content, so therefore not a reliable fix.
I also haven’t seen any evidence that eARC solves this problem. Lots of people are experiencing all these issues with eARC televisions according to what I read in these threads.
I would love a list of eARC compatible televisions that do not create delays when passing through Atmos bitstream content from external devices. If buying a new eARC television was the $2000 fix to this solution I would be open to it, but I have no confidence that this will fix it. I notice people here are quick to blame the TV manufacturers here, but if Sonos releases a device that is MADE for Atmos and forces us to use a much more nascent technology (ARC and/or eARC) for that Atmos, and all new HDTVs including the new eARC ones from reputable manufacturers systematically introduce horrible delays, then this product isn’t ready for prime time.
I do not have those audio delays you describe with my equipment utilizing hdmi e-arc. As posted in this thread previously, all tvs with e-arc capability must include mandatory lip sync correction.
I had some prior issues with audio dropouts via hdmi e-arc, but they were eventually resolved by a Sony firmware update (not Sonos). And based on the reported firmware updates by other tv manufacturers (LG, Samsung) over the past year to address various hdmi related issues, its pretty clear to me that the tv industry’s hdmi implementation has fallen short of reasonable expectations. I wish I could tell you otherwise, but I cannot.
@Jimmy C glad to hear you aren’t having any delay issues with e-arc. Can you please describe your setup further?
- What model TV do you have?
- What is the source material for the Atmos content? (Streaming Box? Built-in TV apps? Game Console?)
Trying to isolate why some people aren’t having issues. As you can see with the post from Matt87, even those with “Standard Bearer” EARC TVs like the LG CX OLED are having this issue.
I guess an optical splitter is the way to go with the PS4 Pro and Foxtel, however this issue is incredibly disappointing for such expensive equipment.
Does anyone know of an Optical switch which will work with Harmony?
Just had a long conversation with samsung regarding audio delay/lipsync problems for them to turn round snd say there just not compatible thats there reply £3000 spent for them to not be compatible.
Presumably, some TV internal processors are just too slow to decode and deliver the Dolby Digital 5.1 audio signal through their ports in a timely manner.
Where relevant, I would buy an audio splitter and choose to bypass the TV altogether and let the TV fallback to using PCM stereo. Pity that your Samsung TV does not support audio pass-through.
The connected Sonos HT device can only play the audio, of course, as soon as it is received and some TV’s simply can’t send it in a timely fashion to keep up with the video on screen. More recent TV’s are quite efficient in this area, but sometimes they can come at added cost.
LG TV’s are pretty good IMHO and their recent TV’s not only have faster internal processors, but now also provide 'pass-through’ on the ports of some WebOS supported models ..and appear to sync rather well with most connected devices, but again these things are a little more expensive than some other TV’s.
I would switch the audio output setting to “TV speaker” and still turn off all the available sound enhancement features in the TV audio settings and then switch things back to the optical output to the playbar, despite them being unavailable to change when outputting to optical, the additional data may still be being handled by the TV audio processor in the signal, before it is passed out the optical port for the playbar to play... so I would still try switching off those additional features.
I guess an optical splitter is the way to go with the PS4 Pro and Foxtel, however this issue is incredibly disappointing for such expensive equipment.
Does anyone know of an Optical switch which will work with Harmony?
Here you go...
Portta 4 Port 4x1 SPDIF/Toslink Digital Optical Audio Switch/Switcher with IR Remote https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01A89OEUY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_TVHjBbMBPMZCJ
+3
But my issue is once I have connected my brand new 4K Firestick TV I then get lip sync issues with the firestick on live broadcasts of iptv
The Firestick has been tested on my other TV and works with no noticeable lip sync issues but as soon as its loaded onto the C8 I get the issue. I have tried switching the sound to pcm and stereo but the lip sync issue does not go away.
I have the same iptv provider on the Firestick and on the Mag and the inbuilt iptv app on the C8
I have tried everything but can only work out that it is some issue with the TV sound set up and not the actual Firestick or Sonos.
Just a quick update This morning I unplugged everything and just ran the Firestick through HDMI 1 with the TV sound only and the lip sync was even worse.
The Firestick has been tested independently and is working perfectly so I can only assume that there is a compatibility issue between the C8 and the Firestick 4K settings
I would switch the audio output setting to “TV speaker” and still turn off all the available sound enhancement features in the TV audio settings and then switch things back to the optical output to the playbar, despite them being unavailable to change when outputting to optical, the additional data may still be being handled by the TV audio processor in the signal, before it is passed out the optical port for the playbar to play... so I would still try switching off those additional features.
I have the Bar with the sub, and two play:1's and a boost as my setup. And I did switch those features off before I set my TV to optical, all TV audio settings are all set to default/off for the enhancers and things that may cause problems, when I change my audio type back to optical the settings get greyed out again
I'd check the audio settings on the PS4, certainly, but the next time it happens, I would recommend that you submit a system diagnostic within 10 minutes, and either post the number here, or contact Sonos Support to discuss it. I tend to suggest the phone folks, they have more tools available, but are only available during business hours. Both the Twitter and Facebook support folks are available 24/7.
There may be information included in the diagnostic that will help Sonos pinpoint the issue and help you find a solution.
+2
Nearly £3000 for a tv i would hope it would work property
I took 10 minutes yesterday looking for such a device on Amazon, and could not find one. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist, but Amazon US doesn’t seem to recognize the search terms I was using, I got a bunch of devices that can accept and pass an eARC signal, but none that could natively create that signal from an incoming HDMI input.
I’d imagine there are some folks working on that right now, given there’s a rather pent up demand for such. It will be interesting to see what price point it comes in at, as most devices that include that type of electronics are TVs, and the opportunity for us to notice a significant price difference is low, since there’s so many other electronics in that package. Perhaps someone like Flexson is already dealing with a purveyor that’s close to production? We just don’t know.
This whole thread and multiple other threads across the internet are proof enough. LG know of the issue but unfortunately their front line customer service are clueless. The issue is the ability to pass through 5.1 audio from a HDMI source. The 2016, 2017 and 18 models have the issue.
I took 10 minutes yesterday looking for such a device on Amazon, and could not find one. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist, but Amazon US doesn’t seem to recognize the search terms I was using, I got a bunch of devices that can accept and pass an eARC signal, but none that could natively create that signal from an incoming HDMI input.
I’d imagine there are some folks working on that right now, given there’s a rather pent up demand for such. It will be interesting to see what price point it comes in at, as most devices that include that type of electronics are TVs, and the opportunity for us to notice a significant price difference is low, since there’s so many other electronics in that package. Perhaps someone like Flexson is already dealing with a purveyor that’s close to production? We just don’t know.
Here is one I found earlier on amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07L3L9TF5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_dJfTEb7ZM2KMV
XOLORspace 63021PRO 1x2 4K 60HZ HDMI Splitter YCbCr 4:4:4 8 bit HDR 1 HDMI input 1 HDMI audio/video output and 1 HDMI audio output only, with audio extractor Optical, stereo
Bought a beam/sub and LG C9, now starting to regret it. TV hasn’t arrived but hooked up to older plasma last night along with 2 play 1 rears bring repurposed. Even going optical to hdmi I was getting some out of sync audio. Played with Sonos adjuster which helped as well as processing on older tv, but couldn’t get it perfect.
Seriously tempted to send the Sonos back despite how convenient it is. I saw a nice slim marantz receiver and high end 5.1 speaker combo online for a great price about what I paid for the beam and sub.
Seems other tv’s have this issue, but if this is isolated to LG then I’ll add it to the list of complaints. Spent month trying to deal with LG resolution issues with MacBook (but this could also be an Apple issue and not LG).
I keep checking for a class action lawsuit to be started against LG. Their frontline staff are absolutely useless and just knowingly make things up to get people off the phone. Don't underestimate their desire to wear everyone out until the issue just stops being talked about and we just forget we are using stereo on our TV's instead of Dolby.
As for Sonos, get with the last decade and put a darn HDMI Port on your Playbar and Playbase. HDMI ARC would have solved this whole issue.
Bought a beam/sub and LG C9, now starting to regret it. TV hasn’t arrived but hooked up to older plasma last night along with 2 play 1 rears bring repurposed. Even going optical to hdmi I was getting some out of sync audio. Played with Sonos adjuster which helped as well as processing on older tv, but couldn’t get it perfect.
If you played with the Sonos ‘Adjuster' and that ‘helped’ to make a difference, then that really does sound like you had your speakers ‘grouped’ rather than them set them up within a bonded setup, as the TV dialog adjuster would not have helped at all with lip-sync, in fact it would have made it far worse???
That device doesn’t create eARC, it merely passes it along when it’s connected to an eARC device that is sending it (via HDMI 1)
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