End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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  • Ryan S
  • Retired Sonos Staff
  • 12372 replies

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

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4256 replies

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

Also another question I should know the answer to.

I received the email ages back about what devices would get pensioned off but appear to have lost that somewhere! Great housekeeping.

Is there a tool can be run to identify S1 and S2 devices on a users specific system? 

I have the Sonos printed list but got a little lost when it came to gen1 or gen 2 versions etc. 

Being a little lazy maybe but a simple tool or option within Sonos would help to adjust mindset on route forward.

J

OK.  First.  Use your Android mobile controller, not the desktop.  You need Android 7 or later.

As at now, what software version is your app on, and what version is the system on?

(Check in About my System.)

I have split my system - it’s no big deal.  Post back with those version numbers and we’ll take it from there.

 

Smilja

@DK_Madsen, You can safely update to v11.2 (S1). As @jgatie stated, you’d have to install the S2 app on purpose in order to migrate the system’s firmware to v12 (S2).

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sonos.acr&hl=us


Ok, great.

 

Is there actually a changelog for 11.1 to 11.2 ?

 

Never mind, google helped me, the only difference is some update to voice assistants, and none of my sonos has a built in microphone because if choose to avoid these products so there is no benefit of updating it seems.

 

When setting up a voice assistant, the response chime will now be turned off by default. You can still choose to enable the chime during setup or in your app’s Settings menu.

 

@DK_Madsen, those who like to keep any inherent bugs in v11.1 are welcome to not update to v11.2. :wink:

S1 will provide security patches and bugfixes in the future, there won’t be any new features included.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
J

@DK_Madsen, You can safely update to v11.2 (S1). As @jgatie stated, you’d have to install the S2 app on purpose in order to migrate the system’s firmware to v12 (S2).

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sonos.acr&hl=us


Ok, great.

 

Is there actually a changelog for 11.1 to 11.2 ?

 

Never mind, google helped me, the only difference is some update to voice assistants, and none of my sonos has a built in microphone because if choose to avoid these products so there is no benefit of updating it seems.

 

When setting up a voice assistant, the response chime will now be turned off by default. You can still choose to enable the chime during setup or in your app’s Settings menu.

 

@DK_Madsen, those that like to keep any inherent bugs in v11.1 are welcome to not update to v11.2. :wink:

S1 will provide security patches and bugfixes in the future, there won’t be any new features included.

And I would say the security patches are the more important.  New threats arise all the time that need new protections.  That is true of any internet-connected software.  There doesn’t have to be anything ‘wrong’ with v11.1 right now to make it an unwise decision not to upgrade.

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

And I would say the security patches are the more important.  New threats arise all the time that need new protections.  That is true of any software.  There doesn’t have to be anything ‘wrong’ with v11.1 right now to make it an unwise decision not to upgrade.

 

The changelog does not mention any security patches, why would you think there are any in there ?

J

And I would say the security patches are the more important.  New threats arise all the time that need new protections.  That is true of any software.  There doesn’t have to be anything ‘wrong’ with v11.1 right now to make it an unwise decision not to upgrade.

 

The changelog does not mention any security patches, why would you think there are any in there ?

I am talking about future patches.  If you stick with 11.1 you won’t get any.  Only if you get onto S1 (and continue to update)

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

I am talking about future patches.  If you stick with 11.1 you won’t get any.  Only if you get onto S1 (and continue to update)

Aah yes.

I can update at that time then :)

A

And I would say the security patches are the more important.  New threats arise all the time that need new protections.  That is true of any software.  There doesn’t have to be anything ‘wrong’ with v11.1 right now to make it an unwise decision not to upgrade.

 

The changelog does not mention any security patches, why would you think there are any in there ?

I am talking about future patches.  If you stick with 11.1 you won’t get any.  Only if you get onto S1 (and continue to update)

But  presumably S1 is still going to be stuck using SMB1, a large and ongoing security issue that’s not going to be fixed. 

Airgetlam

Since I’m pretty sure that the SMB version is dependent on the capability of the Linux kernel that can support it, and the Linux kernel doesn’t have any space to be increased in size on S1 due to the amount of memory on legacy devices, I’d expect that S1 devices will indeed be “stuck” on SMB v1

Bruce
Bumper
Userlevel 7
Badge +13

And I would say the security patches are the more important.  New threats arise all the time that need new protections.  That is true of any software.  There doesn’t have to be anything ‘wrong’ with v11.1 right now to make it an unwise decision not to upgrade.

 

The changelog does not mention any security patches, why would you think there are any in there ?

I am talking about future patches.  If you stick with 11.1 you won’t get any.  Only if you get onto S1 (and continue to update)

But  presumably S1 is still going to be stuck using SMB1, a large and ongoing security issue that’s not going to be fixed. 

So far S2 is stuck with this gaping security issue too, with no indication that it will be fixed. Hopefully they figure out how to fix this for both versions. 

 

jgatie

So far S2 is stuck with this gaping security issue too, with no indication that it will be fixed. Hopefully they figure out how to fix this for both versions. 

 

 

Highly unlikely it is fixed for S1.  S1 uses a kernel from before SMB v2 existed, and there’s not enough resources on the old units to fit a newer kernel.

G

i understand why you would stop updating older system hardware but as someone with 2 x g1 play 5, 2 x play 3, a connect and a sound bar why bring out a different app. Just because some functionality is not available on older speakers does not mean you need 2 apps as any good application developer will tell you.  Why would I now buy any new sonos hardware which would require me to use a different controller app and which will not work with my older hardware. I have no problems with my older play 5 speakers they work beautifully so there is no advantage to updating them. I was looking at purchasing additional speakers (play 1s and a move) but if I have to use 2 controllers Imay as well go to another premium speaker supplier. 

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

There is no technical reason for a new app, the UPnP APIs are identical. Sonos did it so they could drop support for the old S1-only hardware. The desktop S2 apps took about twenty minutes to create: make a new branch in PerForce, replace the icon with a terrible one, and #define SWVER 1 to #define SWVER 2.

Setup took longer as S1 and S2 apps share the same library service.

Mobile apps have a different UX so not doubt took a lot longer.

Third party apps do support both S1 and S2 systems from the same app.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
A

so i work in retail , i believe our store had the highest sales of sonos products over last peak ( xmas2019) in the UK , i have  a few s1 products used for 5+years at least.. would have liked to buy some new boxes to increase  locations around the house ..occasionally staff offers are hard to resist , but now it seems its pointless as i cannot control my old stuff and new stuff in my app!!!  sorry i havn’t read ALL 165 pages of this thread or the previously canxd one !!  , but i am to believe that i won’t be able to play my song on ALL speakers at the same time if i have s1 and s2 speakers??? 

I can tell you that when bose did this with their new soundbase speakers ( couldn't group them with the previous series ) customers just simply didn't buy them… HOW in the world do you propose i can sell the new speakers to long time customers of sonos if they cannot be grouped with their old speakers??? 

I hope i have misunderstood the compatibility of old and new speakers , because if i havnt  , then i KNOW this will affect sonos sales , and ive been selling them for about 12+ years..

 

do you care?

sorry if i am totally wrong about this.. please someone enlighten me , as store are reopening in the next few weeks i need to know where i stand with this issue .

 

thank you.

 

 

 

jgatie

You aren't being forced to split your system into S1 and S2.  Keep everything at S1 and you can go on just as you do today.  The only thing you can't do is add S2 only speakers like the Arc or Five to an S1 system, anything made before S2 can be added just fine.

Also, this is very different from what Bose did.  Bose cancelled an entire line of speakers that were currently being sold and replaced them with another line that wasn't compatible at all.  Sonos is relegating decade plus old designs that haven't been sold in years to a legacy status, but they still will work with newer products (some still being sold today) if you keep them at S1.

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Third party apps do support both S1 and S2 systems from the same app.

But third party apps is still unable to make S1 and S2 speakers play the same music in sync right ?

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

I hope i have misunderstood the compatibility of old and new speakers , because if i havnt  , then i KNOW this will affect sonos sales , and ive been selling them for about 12+ years..

You have not misunderstood.

Me for example, i have 9 sonos units, one is not upgradeable to S2 (Play 5 generation 1) so i am stuck on S1.

I also have a Playbar and 2 Play 1’s that is used as sorround in the living room.

I am not able to buy the new SUB and add it to the system as all Sonos models, released from now on is unable to run S1, and buying the “old” sub would be a mistake as it will Probably not be able to move to S3, in 5 years when sonos decides to go there.

Buying a Play 5 generation 2 or 3 would also be like peeing my pants as i have play 3’s play 1’s (first generation) and the play 1’s were replaced with Sonos one 2-3 years ago so they are probably going in “the bin” in a few years and needs replacing to get to S3 as well.

Personally i am staying at S1, and have firmly decided to keep the speakers until they die and not replace them with sonos at such a time. I suspect that you will see the same thing with a lot of your costumers as well..

 

A

Personally i am staying at S1, and have firmly decided to keep the speakers until they die and not replace them with sonos at such a time. I suspect that you will see the same thing with a lot of your costumers as well..

I’m locked down at 10.4, as going any further would ‘retire’ yet another controller. Sticking with S1 would be good, but the main argument is about security and, as I don’t let my kit anywhere near the internet (local streaming only), I’m not too bothered.

Like you, I’ll run the hardware until it dies. Sonos kit seems quite well made, and there are now places that can repair common problems, so they might last a while yet. When they fail, I’ll re-evaluate what’s on the market at that time. Right at the moment, it’s unlikely to be Sonos kit.

K

In my book the problem is not so much with Sonos, as with something that Sonos has brought to the forefront - of bundled/integrated smart products at high price points. To me it now makes no sense to go for these, be they Sonos or any other, for home audio and for other needs, if an alternative that offers a modular and equally good solution is available. The good thing about the present set of legacy Sonos products is that all offer line in jacks to which current generation smart third part front end modules can be wired, leaving Sonos to be a dumb audio player like all legacy Hifi kit is. Often, as if the front end module is an Echo Show, features that are missing even in the latest Sonos S2 kit, are available, that will work with all Sonos legacy products, leap frogging these ahead of S2 kit.

And I give Sonos credit for the hardware longevity of their legacy kit, that looks like it will comfortably exceed my expectations on that front for it, when I bought it in 2011. 

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

Third party apps do support both S1 and S2 systems from the same app.

But third party apps is still unable to make S1 and S2 speakers play the same music in sync right ?


Correct.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
D

I have a customer who has “updated” to S1, they have a couple of legacy Amps. 
 

They have lost access to the music library on the Mac and can’t re add it, I read somewhere that S1 music library is no longer a feature but cannot see any clarification from Sonos. 
 

Is this an issue? 

jgatie

I have a customer who has “updated” to S1, they have a couple of legacy Amps. 
 

They have lost access to the music library on the Mac and can’t re add it, I read somewhere that S1 music library is no longer a feature but cannot see any clarification from Sonos. 
 

Is this an issue? 

 

Not true.  The library should work just as before.  Something else is ar work.

M
Badge

Let me pile on (4,123rd post to this string) probably repeating ad nauseam.  I new this day was coming from the warning emails, but put off running the upgrade numbers until today.  I’ve been a customer since 2005 growing my home Sonos system as my family grew and now into our 3rd home.  And I too have been evangelizing Sonos gear over the years.

Things started to get squirrely with Sonos once they went public and had shareholders to answer to and managing to quarterly expectations rather than building for the long term.  Hell I even own some of Sonos stock - what a lousy investment that’s been - I suppose in line with my investment in Sonos gear - I have to buy 5 Amps, 2 play 5s and a Port just to have part of my system work with the rest of it on S2.  This is well over $3k (including the paltry 30% discount) in addition to the money already spent on the old gear that works just fine on S1 except that I can’t group anything with S2, and have to use two different apps, etc (Arc just came today, so I have to go to S2).  I want to upgrade the obsolete gear, but this is simply UNAFFORDABLE!!!

Like most everyone else, I just feel VIOLATED as a loyal customer.  Sonos could have easily made this right by offering a more fair discount (say like 70% discount) to keep their longstanding customers happy instead of alienating us with this insulting proposition.

My recommendation would be for Sonos to make this right by setting a new upgrade discount (refunding the difference to those who’ve already upgraded).  If management would just do that, I think we’d have a big party in the Community Forum.  Make it right, what do you say Sonos?

K

I want to upgrade the obsolete gear

As I see it, as long as my legacy system works on a S1 controller that keeps getting security patches, it is not obsolete. And I have no need of any S2 kit in my 5 zone system. So this all irrelevant to me now.

Which isn't to say you also should think the same way, and the answer for you may be a sliding scale of discounts from 30% up, depending on how many products are offered for trade in at the same time. But I think it may be too late in the day for Sonos to switch to something like this, if only because of the complexity of giving refunds to another set of people that will then feel violated.

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

I want to upgrade the obsolete gear

As I see it, as long as my legacy system works on a S1 controller that keeps getting security patches, it is not obsolete. And I have no need of any S2 kit in my 5 zone system. So this all irrelevant to me now.

Which isn't to say you also should think the same way, and the answer for you may be a sliding scale of discounts from 30% up, depending on how many products are offered for trade in at the same time. But I think it may be too late in the day for Sonos to switch to something like this, if only because of the complexity of giving refunds to another set of people that will then feel violated.


The problem….For Sonos, is that a LOT of sales comes / came, from current costumers, that expand and renew their system, when old units fail.

By making the new stuff incompatible with S1, and forcing people to stay at S1 if they have but ONE incompatible unit, they are effectively cutting the branch they themselves sit on.

S1 users will feel left out and might not upgrade, because they dont see the logic in throwing away perfectly good speakers, just to buy another similarily looking speaker that, to them seems to have the exact same features.

 

In the above, i dont consider mixed S1 / S2 as a viable option. This is because this configuration is incompatible with one of sonos’s main selling points, seamless streaming across multiple devices in perfect sync.

So while the costumer might be able to contend with staying at S1 and not being able to buy new sonos gear, i bet sonos is not going to be happy, that they effectively blocked the road for many of its costumers…..Unless they want to take sonos new very expensive toll road, so to speak.

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