End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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4256 replies

K

 

So while the costumer might be able to contend with staying at S1 and not being able to buy new sonos gear, i bet sonos is not going to be happy, that they effectively blocked the road for many of its costumers…..Unless they want to take sonos new very expensive toll road, so to speak.

But isn't that what strategy is all about - choosing one path and rejecting another by definition? They are betting on more business via the new toll road and only time will tell whether they made the right call, and whether they will be happy or not. 

There is of course little argument over the view that they handled the communication aspects of the transition, including the trade up thing, very poorly.

In my case, I have never had any interest in any Sonos products for TV and so all the S2 excitement over new products for that domain - Atmos etc etc - leaves me completely unmoved. As does Hi Res audio because I don't think it offers real benefits.

But Sonos has to have felt that they needed to do something more than just incremental stuff to keep differentiating for growth, and there would be market data and research behind their choices. Again, how good is the data/research and then the choices made based on this, only time will tell.  

And for my part, the very situation of there now being lots of equivalent solutions out there that forced them to take steps to differentiate themselves, means that as long as my legacy Sonos hardware works as such, the same equivalent solutions are available to me to use in a world where Sonos is relegated to working as dumb HiFi hardware. So there is little reason for grief where I am concerned. At the end of the day, this is just a home audio system...not some mission critical piece of tech to keep upgrading. All it has to do is what it has done for nine years, which is supply music in the home from ripped CDs and internet services. But Sonos is obviously betting on folks that think like I do to be a small minority of its target market.

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

 

So while the costumer might be able to contend with staying at S1 and not being able to buy new sonos gear, i bet sonos is not going to be happy, that they effectively blocked the road for many of its costumers…..Unless they want to take sonos new very expensive toll road, so to speak.

But isn't that what strategy is all about - choosing one path and rejecting another by definition? They are betting on more business via the new toll road and only time will tell whether they made the right call, and whether they will be happy or not. 

There is of course little argument over the view that they handled the communication aspects of the transition, including the trade up thing, very poorly.

In my case, I have never had any interest in any Sonos products for TV and so all the S2 excitement over new products for that domain - Atmos etc etc - leaves me completely unmoved. As does Hi Res audio because I don't think it offers real benefits.

But Sonos has to have felt that they needed to do something more than just incremental stuff to keep differentiating for growth, and there would be market data and research behind their choices. Again, how good is the data/research and then the choices made based on this, only time will tell.  

And for my part, the very situation of there now being lots of equivalent solutions out there that forced them to take steps to differentiate themselves, means that as long as my legacy Sonos hardware works as such, the same equivalent solutions are available to me to use in a world where Sonos is relegated to working as dumb HiFi hardware. So there is little reason for grief where I am concerned. At the end of the day, this is just a home audio system...not some mission critical piece of tech to keep upgrading. All it has to do is what it has done for nine years, which is supply music in the home from ripped CDs and internet services. But Sonos is obviously betting on folks that think like I do to be a small minority of its target market.

 

I agree, what sonos is doing is twisting the current users arms, hoping they can “force” them into investing even more money into sonos.

I only aquired my first sonos about 5 years ago and already i can see that my Play 5 generation 1 is “obsolete” and the playbar i bought 2 years ago has also been discontinued. I also have play 1’s that are first generation, i admit that i could have gotten second generation ones when i bought the 2 of these, but i dont want speakers with microphones so opted for the first generation ones, that was bought a couple of years ago in a shop.

The real question here is. Has Sonos been misrepresenting their products ?

Until recently sonos had this “Buy sonos, you can upgrade later and everything will work together” vibe.

I dont mind that my “old” speakers will not get some of the features of the new speakers, but that sonos, one day would make it so that a product i bought would not be able to stream simple MP3 audio from my NAS together with an “old” product is baffling.

This is 100% a choice NOT TO support, not a matter og “inability” to support.

 

K

 

I dont mind that my “old” speakers will not get some of the features of the new speakers, but that sonos, one day would make it so that a product i bought would not be able to stream simple MP3 audio from my NAS together with an “old” product is baffling.

This is 100% a choice NOT TO support, not a matter og “inability” to support.

 

To the last part - an argument has raged over this point in the thread and not being in this tech domain, I had nothing to contribute to it. My way to deal with this in future will be to get a non Sonos speaker with line in jacks, and using another Echo Dot wired to those, use the Echo groups feature to have all play together whenever I need grouped play. 

There are, as I said, plenty of cheap ways to bypass Sonos and move on in life!

M
Badge

I want to upgrade the obsolete gear

As I see it, as long as my legacy system works on a S1 controller that keeps getting security patches, it is not obsolete. And I have no need of any S2 kit in my 5 zone system. So this all irrelevant to me now.

Which isn't to say you also should think the same way, and the answer for you may be a sliding scale of discounts from 30% up, depending on how many products are offered for trade in at the same time. But I think it may be too late in the day for Sonos to switch to something like this, if only because of the complexity of giving refunds to another set of people that will then feel violated.

Kumar Wrote: “And I have no need of any S2 kit in my 5 zone system. So this all irrelevant to me now.”

So you are an example of a potential lost Sonos customer.  You have no intention of purchasing anything that runs only on S2.  I hope that works for you in the future.

For me, it doesnt work as I’m adding a feature TV in my home, and I have chosen to go with the latest technology with the Arc, so this has forced my hand in splitting my system.  Along with me, my wife hates the split system, but she’s already vetoed any thought of paying the money Sonos is asking to replace the old technology.  In some cases I cant even use the same music subscription service on S1 and S2 at the same time - this is just horrible.

E
Badge

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

lets hope this decision you made will backfire on this company, never buy a single product after this. Customers are not stupid falling for this con. The company deserves go bust.

Thanks Lizzy
K

The company deserves go bust.

Perhaps, but I hope very much that it does not. I am looking forward to a supported S1 environment for many more years - till that last of my Sonos hardware dies of old age!

V
Userlevel 2
Badge

My god I’m just learning about this mess. Why wouldn’t SONOS just keep it all on one app and gray out devices or rooms that don’t support a feature that’s in use?

What on earth? Why would anyone throw a perfectly functional Play5 Gen1 in the trash? It’s essentially what they’re asking people to do when S1 and S2 won’t even link or crosstalk.

SONOS should consider trying new Devs, not this brand-impacting mess. (IMO)

V
Userlevel 2
Badge

 

 

 


 i dont want speakers with microphones so opted for the first generation ones.

I dont mind that my “old” speakers will not get some of the features of the new speakers, but that sonos, one day would make it so that a product i bought would not be able to stream simple MP3 audio from my NAS together with an “old” product is baffling.

This is 100% a choice

 

I *will not* add SONOS speakers with mics to my dwellings. Ever. Full stop. If the SL ever goes away or only Mic equipped speakers are sold offered by SONOS, it’s either AMP devices or the highway for me.

 

U

I just got the new Ikea speaker by Sonos, ordered well before I knew anything about the S1/S2 debacle. I’m glad it works on S1 otherwise it would have been sent back. One thing the S1 software did was force me to update to the latest version before it would allow me to connect it. I have lost all faith in this company, I never understood why they forced you to register devices before they work. No S2 only speakers will be bought by me, I’ll be buying from other vendors.

 

They must have a lot of customers to be able to be able to disregard the early adopters.

S

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

lets hope this decision you made will backfire on this company, never buy a single product after this. Customers are not stupid falling for this con. The company deserves go bust.

I’m with you Lizzy - I shall not be buying anymore sonos products - S1 until they get replaced by something else.

Connect Amp x 3, Connect x 1, Sub x 2, Playbar x 2, Beam x 1, Play 1 x 4, Play 3 x 1, Play 5 x 2, Boost x 1, Symfonisk x 2
J

I am certainly struggling to understand how a graph that ends in September 2019 sheds light on market reaction to an announcement made in February 2020.

T00LF00L
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

Thanks for this bad icon Sonos, is this what I have to look at forever now? You just keep giving the middle finger to your customers.

I am just a worthless liar. I am just an imbecil.
A
Userlevel 6
Badge +10

OK.  First.  Use your Android mobile controller, not the desktop.  You need Android 7 or later.

As at now, what software version is your app on, and what version is the system on?

(Check in About my System.)

I have split my system - it’s no big deal.  Post back with those version numbers and we’ll take it from there.

 

 

Apologies for the slow reply John. Turned out our Nexus 7 (only used for Sonos really) was not Android 7.

The wife’s Sony smartphone was but had a hissy fit (pure coincidence) with the Sonos app that’s took a few days resolve. Never happened before and nothing to do with S1.

I don’t have a smartphone yet (Nokia E61 … don,t laugh ….. 17 years old and still hanging in there)

Right at last I have the data. Version: 11.2 Sonos OS: S1 Build 57377289.

Ironically the solution to the one off Sony/Sonos app problem was to delete app and re-install.

I started the re-install and then realised the default Google App Store install was S2! I stopped it before any actual install and then selected Sonos S1.

Apols it took a while come back.

Installed and all looking good.

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

@Ryan S  when the change of heart happened, Patrick said that:

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state . We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

Sonos have not delivered the ability to split the system AND have legacy products remain in their current state.  Current state means as they are, which means settings, Playlists, services - everything really.

What Sonos have rolled out is nothing of the sort and actually necessitates a Factory reset of the Legacy devices and the complete loss of all above. Playlists especially are very time consuming to recreate and this is the reason I cannot update to S2.

What is the reason Sonos haven't delivered what was promised and are there any plans to allow users to split their system and allow the legacy components to maintain their current state?

K

@sjw: Sonos could claim that you can retain S1 with playlists...they never promised that S2 will get the existing playlists, if one was to parse the Spence words:-)

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

I'll wait to see what Sonos say as opposed to what they ‘could' claim.

The wording certainly suggests (and was, I believe, the expectation) that you split your system and both coexist as before but one half on S1 and the other on S2 - but they could no longer be grouped.

For clarity though, are you suggesting they may say you could keep the legacy S1 as is and the S2 is the ‘upgraded' set up that would have to start again from scratch?  Only in Sonos land could that be deemed an upgraded set up where you have to start again.

K

 

For clarity though, are you suggesting they may say you could keep the legacy S1 as is and the S2 is the ‘upgraded' set up that would have to start again from scratch?  Only in Sonos land could that be deemed an upgraded set up where you have to start again.

Yes, that is what I am suggesting, now familiar with Sonos land. Where those using local NAS are now less than 5% in “value” and decreasing, and those with extensive playlists there that are hard to replicate manually, a smaller subset of that 5%.

And all of the above, out of the very small lot that are opting for a split system to start with; those moving en masse to S2 do not have this issue.

It is all about numbers, costs and benefits to Sonos “going forward” to use another irritating term.

Let’s see what Sonos say though, assuming they do.

PS: you have a better chance of a private reply via a message directly to Ryan.

P
Userlevel 1

As someone who bought their first Sonos product a decade ago, has 14 products, recommended it to over a dozen people, and a multi year beta tester, I can unequivocally state I will never by another Sonos product,
 

Sonos pulled a complete new coke, but with a product line that costs 1000s of dollars. So there is dumb and than there is Sonos dumb.

A

 What a mess….All my equipment was compatible with the new S2 app so I went ahead and downloaded it on my phone and did the upgrade to my system excited to see all the changes and enhanced features. All good so far, until my wife tried to use  the sonos system. She had never had trouble before but her phone before, but her app, the original one, will not work with the upgraded system. No problem, get the new app….BUT NOOOOOO!! her older android is not compatible with the S2 app. Ok so lets go back to S1 so both our phone can control the system…..NO AGAIN...Can’t go back..S2 is irreversible. So I am now going to have to replace her phone….I am not happy about this at all!!! :rage:  Anyone else had this problem? Did you find a fix?  I am no longer a big fan of Sonos. I think they really blew this. At the very least there should be a big up front warning that S2  may not be compatible with some older smartphones, and the upgrade is irreversible. At least I would have paused before upgrading and done my research…..:rage:   :rage: 

melvimbe

I'll wait to see what Sonos say as opposed to what they ‘could' claim.

The wording certainly suggests (and was, I believe, the expectation) that you split your system and both coexist as before but one half on S1 and the other on S2 - but they could no longer be grouped.

For clarity though, are you suggesting they may say you could keep the legacy S1 as is and the S2 is the ‘upgraded' set up that would have to start again from scratch?  Only in Sonos land could that be deemed an upgraded set up where you have to start again.

 

If you stay entirely on S1, you’ll keep all your settings and playlists.  If you migrate entirely to S2, you’ll keep all your settings and playlists.  From what I can tell, i f you run a split system, S2 will keep your settings and playlists while S1 will not.  I suppose you could also manage to create an split with S1 keeping the settings, if you manually removed S2 speakers and created a brand new new S2 system, manually.

 What a mess….All my equipment was compatible with the new S2 app so I went ahead and downloaded it on my phone and did the upgrade to my system excited to see all the changes and enhanced features. All good so far, until my wife tried to use  the sonos system. She had never had trouble before but her phone before, but her app, the original one, will not work with the upgraded system. No problem, get the new app….BUT NOOOOOO!! her older android is not compatible with the S2 app. Ok so lets go back to S1 so both our phone can control the system…..NO AGAIN...Can’t go back..S2 is irreversible. So I am now going to have to replace her phone….I am not happy about this at all!!! :rage:  Anyone else had this problem? Did you find a fix?  I am no longer a big fan of Sonos. I think they really blew this. At the very least there should be a big up front warning that S2  may not be compatible with some older smartphones, and the upgrade is irreversible. At least I would have paused before upgrading and done my research…..:rage:   :rage: 

 

 This really isn’t an S1/S2 issue, as it common for older OS versions to lose support as Sonos upgrades.  Sonos generally supports OS version that Google/Apple still support.  Sonos would likely have dropped support for your wife’s phone regardless of S1/S2.

Danny
A

It’s really to late to split the system. The S2 upgrade has been done and they tell me there is no going back. That’s the real problem. My wife’s phone was working with the old app and probably would have continued to work on some level for quite a while. They should have known there would be some issues that would make some people want to go back to S1 but I guess they didn’t think that far ahead….BTY anyone know if there is any truth that apple is going to by Sonos. I can just see it now...YOU NEED TO USE AN IPHONE FOR SONOS. That would really piss me off!!

B

I can only echo the comments of others I was an early adopter and now left with nothing. On point of principle I cannot justify supporting such a company and will be purchasing elsewhere

Naim products look better anyway 

A

I can only echo the comments of others I was an early adopter and now left with nothing. On point of principle I cannot justify supporting such a company and will be purchasing elsewhere

I’m not supporting what Sonos have done at all and, like you, won’t be buying any further kit. However, I fail to see how you’re left with ‘nothing’. Surely you can still run your kit in legacy mode, exactly as it works at the moment.

A

Brian...Sounds good in principle but!! once you update to S2 there is no going back.  This is beginning to feel like an apple thing!!!

BTW, I too would switch but presently have 7 pieces of Sonos gear..

jgatie

Brian...Sounds good in principle but!! once you update to S2 there is no going back.  This is beginning to feel like an apple thing!!!

BTW, I too would switch but presently have 7 pieces of Sonos gear..

 

Not true.  If you factory reset a unit running S2, you can then add it back to your S1 system.  

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