Android and Trueplay



Show first post

176 replies

Trueplay on Android being microphone dependant is just a stupid excuse not to implement it. A calibrated microphone costs nothing compared to Sonos or iOs products. On Android devices we are able to use external mics. A Dayton Audio iMM-6 costs 40$ and MiniDSP UMIK-1 costs 80$ and both work perfectly on any Android device. Why not just assume that everyone has a calibrated mic and enable Trueplay on Android? Then if the user is using an Android device’s internal microphone and the result is crappy he can disable Trueplay. This is not rocket science.

My goal is to enjoy my Sonos as much as possible with minimal aggravation, not to get Sonos to do stuff.


I don’t think these should be mutually exclusive. Not everyone is capable of self sufficiency and expecting such as the default approach without addressing the root cause is a slippery slope to letting Sonos off the hook. On that basis we should not ask for any new features and start writing the code ourselves!!! 

I couldn’t agree more… We see far too much of an apologist approach in these forums, which effectively means that Sonos never has to engage with their customers in any meaningful way - they just come out with the bland line of passing the message on to the appropriate department - and nothing ever…. ever….. changes….. How long have we been waiting for an android Trueplay solution now? IIRC. since 5.x or 6.x was released. It really isn’t good enough.

There are people here who jump in on any criticism as if they are the voice of Sonos, and it constantly downgrades the need for Sonos to engage constructively - or at all. They have enthusiasts doing their damage limitation for them, to the detriment of those making perfectly valid complaints.

Userlevel 4
Badge +3

I do agree that android trueplay needs to come. The difference to how the Arc sounds with and without it is absolutely massive. Can’t expect everyone to have Apple products and Sonos shouldn’t be selling a product that requires something else to make it sound better anyway. Fair enough if it was minimal difference, but for me it makes it sound a good 70% better have trueplay. Hopefully with the new roam technology using the inbuilt mic to tune, maybe it will come to the other speakers soon with inbuilt mics.

Anything is possible, but I have a few questions for you.

Do these Samsung models use the same microphone hardware within each model, or is there variability, even within each model line?

Which models are Samsung’s ‘flagship models’? 

What percentage of Sonos users have these Samsung devices, in order to make the effort of customizing the system to recognize just those models as TruePlay compliant worth the code effort? Corollary: why just Samsung, and not any other manufacturer’s flagship line?

What would Sonos’ customer support strategy be for all the Android users who don’t have those specific Samsung models, and would not be able to access TruePlay?

 

Userlevel 7
Badge +22

Make a Sonos USB mike that plugs into apple or Android, sell it for enough to make a tidy profit and stop supporting any internal mikes after a couple years/updates.

Never had the hassles with my Denon, Infinity or Yamaha external miles that I have had with the Apple ones, they just worked with no need to buy a new Apple device every couple years as the old one goes unsupported.

Userlevel 4
Badge +4

Make a Sonos USB mike that plugs into apple or Android, sell it for enough to make a tidy profit and stop supporting any internal mikes after a couple years/updates.

I’m all for dropping support from Apple devices and redirecting resources to a solution that is more equitable. But I’d like them to consider using the mics inside Sonos Roam speakers for this job (future models if the current models are not up to the job). Perhaps they could support mics inside the Roam and also a plug-in mic for those who don’t own Roams.

Participated?  I don't think that word means what you think it does.  But you were dead on with the meaning of rant, I'll give you that.

Userlevel 7
Badge +17

Does it matter what number is showing in the app?

And indeed all computer based devices will have a shorter usable life than non-connected devices.

Userlevel 7
Badge +22

I was thinking of a USB device that would plug into the USB port on a phone or tablet and work just as the internal mike option does now.

It would be easy to design an external mike that provided more accurate readings too. Put it on a short extender to get it away from phone and fingers, lowering close in reflected sound.

I’d worry a bit about Bluetooth, both sound quality passed to the App and possible delays in sending it.

 

 

Why would Sonos narrow to Samsung / Pixel? Wouldn’t that make every other Android device owner angry? Or is it that you happen to own a Samsung / Pixel? 
 

If I recall, Samsung and other manufacturers has used different mics even within a single telephone line, so if Sonos were to see an Android phone of X type, it might have any of several different mics in it, and they couldn’t assume that all that line of phones have the same audio profile for the mics. 

Please add Android support. What is the reasoning here?

Except, as I recall (and that may be faulty memory), the microphone in any single line of Android devices may not be the same across all of that model. So a (let’s pick one) Pixel X may have any of several different microphones, all somewhat similar, but not quite the same, in it. 

Well this is disappointing.  I literally don't know anyone who has an iPhone device.  Was going to get the arc soundbar, but will do some searching for alternatives instead...

Why? TruePlay is a nice thing, sometimes, but not a requirement to enjoy the Arc.

Userlevel 7
Badge +23

Why? TruePlay is a nice thing, sometimes, but not a requirement to enjoy the Arc.

Indeed. I have ten Sonos devices and many iOS devices but have never bothered to even try Trueplay. It all sounds great to me.

.  I really hope they are already working on a mic device, but no clue whether that’s happening or not.

I don’t think that this would be well received, but there would be ptential new groups of complaints:

  • I don’t want to fumble with yet another device -- i already have a midrophone in my current device.
  • Why am I forced to buy something else, just to be able to use my system?
  • Android users - It’s already brult into Apple devides
  • This is complicated

.  I really hope they are already working on a mic device, but no clue whether that’s happening or not.

I don’t think that this would be well received, but there would be ptential new groups of complaints:

  • I don’t want to fumble with yet another device -- i already have a midrophone in my current device.
  • Why am I forced to buy something else, just to be able to use my system?
  • Android users - It’s already brult into Apple devides
  • This is complicated

I agree. It may be fine for some android users like myself, but won’t satisfy some or appear as another burden to others.  I don’t really think using a Move or Roam would be much different though, as the same arguements would apply.  Sure, you can use the portable speakers has value for other reasons obviously, but it’s going to cost you more, and some have no need for it otherwise.

In my imagination, Sonos doesn’t need to make and sell the microphone themselves, they can just get contracts with existing usb/lightning cable based mics that be purchased for cheap.  Just need a guarantee that the mic specifics won’t change?  Sonos could also drop support for trueplay in iphones/ipads natively lowering support costs.  Perhaps allowing them to sell the mics cheaper.  That wouldn’t stop all complaints though, and would probably create new ones.

Even if Sonos included a free mic with every purchase, people would complain about the eWaste. If Sonos made it free if you buy direct, their retail partners would complain.

As an aside, pro installers would love this as they would only need to buy one and would give customers a reason to go through them.

 

It does make me wonder if they never should have released TruePlay at all. Many people seem to think it is a silver bullet, and decry the lack of it.
 

Or at least kept it in reserve until there is a suitable alternative for all users. 

 

Since a lot of home receivers come with them, it probably was a checkbox they felt they needed to fill in.  Of course other vendor tuning and trueplay are not the same, and that perhaps was thought of as a positive and something that differentiated Sonos.  I do wonder if they regret the decision though.

But yes, I imagine Sonos would love to fine a good alternative.

 

 

 

 

Except, as I recall (and that may be faulty memory), the microphone in any single line of Android devices may not be the same across all of that model. So a (let’s pick one) Pixel X may have any of several different microphones, all somewhat similar, but not quite the same, in it. 

 

I would not be surprised if a similar situation exists on the Apple side as well now.  Still easier to manage on Apple side than all the android phone makers, but perhaps not as ideal as Sonos originally hoped.

I would be in favor of a separate tuning device as well.

Well this Android user won't be buying Sonos again.

Last speakers I bought were the Google nest speakers and I am a lot happier with them than my Sonos set. They sound just as good and integrate with my android and my Chromecast etc.

I did borrow an iPhone to tune my speakers and it made a big difference. Problem is now I've moved them since they sound awful. I don't even know how to reset them to factory.

I guess if you are bought into the whole apple ecosystem Sonos would be a better choice. But a user like myself using lots of Google home products and with an android phone, the choice to steer away from Sonos in future is obvious.

It’s a pity the mic in the Sonos Roam couldn’t do this I think, but there are perhaps some privacy issues preventing it.

 

Don’t know.  But, dreaming for a moment, it could be that Sonos is actually planning for a trueplay tuning device and doesn’t want to kill that market?  Just a random thought, but what if Sonos could make a portable mic/tuning device that you can place at the spot in the room where you want the primary focus to be, and your speakers would auto tune the timing and such to that space.  Could be very useful for larger spaces with multiple listen areas?  Possible could even be used with amp+passive speakers, for timing issues?   That could be useful to Apple users as well?  I am no expert at tuning though, so that could be completely wrong.

+1 for alternative options.  I dont know anyone who has apple to borrow off (one guy at work has an iphone, but hes not willing to lend it to me).  we have 3 android phones and 2 android tablets.  i have both umik-1 and a umik-2 which i use to with my amplifier calibration (on my windows xps laptop using dirac live).  The calibration is device independent (i plug the umik into my laptop and import the calibration file which is identified by serial number).  i would appreciate the option to run software e.g. on my laptop if android is not an option.

I don’t know, Danny. Given the retirement of all non-music hardware (dock, controllers) Sonos has made, I wonder if that may have made them skittish. Although you could argue that such a device is a more natural extension of the sound process. Given that I happen to have multiple iOS devices that all function for this purpose, it’s not been something I’ve been overly worried about, but I do understand the desire from others. 

 

That’s a good point.  And you could argue that the dock and controllers failed because technology moved on, making them unpopular in the market.  For me personally, the need to get a controller actually kept me out of Sonos for many years.  I could handle ~$400 for a way to play all the MP3s, stored on my computer in the office, in my living room.  Adding $400 for a controller was too much.  The free Sonos app was what got me to pull the trigger. That’s not a knock on those who loved the controller, just saying that it narrowed the market for Sonos.  And obviously, the dock became much less useful when Apple changed their port around and Sonos gained the ability to stream services directly.

It’s possible that a $150 mic (or whatever it costs) could act as a deterrent to sales, if android users feel like they have to have it on top of the cost of a speaker.  And it’s possible that a better technology could come around to replace it.  Don’t know.

Also wondering if such a device could be a good tool for professional installers.

 

The amount of tribalism and attachment toward profit-seeking corporations is funny. Consumerism at its finest.

 

 

People tend to claim that someone who disagrees with them must be subjective, while completely ignoring the objective arguments that have made.  There have been several logical arguments made in this thread.  If can show that the arguments are invalid, I would agree that myself and and others are just being fanboys.  However, just claiming subjectivity without backing it up really does get anywhere.

Android users want a feature that's useful and rightfully feel left out and that their user needs are not being met. No, they're not entitled to TruePlay and making salty proclamations of ending their relationship with Sonos does essentially nothing. But they're Sonos users like anyone else, and are voicing a valid opinion that does have interesting context and questions around it.

 

 

True.  And I don’t think there would be any disagreement if people only stated that they wanted android trueplay functionality.  But it usually doesn’t stop there, with people assuming the reason it doesn’t exist nefarious.

 

Does Sonos see vastly higher user numbers on iOS and feel that Android users don't buy Sonos anyway? Do they think that TruePlay is a big draw and that adding it for Pixel/Galaxy will bring in more Android users, or do they feel like it doesn't really affect purchasing patterns? Are there technological limitations involved? We probably won't get a satisfying answer to these questions, but the end result is that Android users wish they could have a very useful feature, and are saying as much.

 

Sonos stated along time ago that the reason was because of the lack of consistency in microphones on android phones.  It’s not a secret, although perhaps Sonos could state that more frequently.  The problem is that people tend to ignore answers they don’t like.  

 

Personally I think it's inevitable that Sonos does expand TruePlay to Android to maximize the number of potential customers, but it all comes down to prioritization. Until that happens, all Android users can do is to continue making it known that there's a demand for it.

 

You can only draw that conclusion if you don’t know the technical issues or just choose to ignore them.

 

I’m an android user myself, and I would definitely like to see a trueplay solution for non-Apple users.  I just don’t think it will happen by just putting trueplay software on android phones.

 

Given that MOVE and ROAM support auto Trueplay, I can imagine that SONOS will move in this direction for many products. It might be possible to use the microphone in a MOVE or ROAM to tune systems that do not include a microphone.

 

My impression is that auto Trueplay is the lesser cousin of regular trueplay.  So in that regard, Sonos doesn’t want to equip their non-mobile speakers with auto trueplay...as it would be step down?  I could see using the Roam as the mic, as it’s easy to move around like your phone.  The Move seems too big and heavy for that.    I’d like to see Sonos come out with a separate mic device, possibly something that connects to your phone to keep costs down.  If it can work on android and apple devices, than it remove the need to test trueplay with each new Apple device.  

I would guess Sonos is a bit concerned with giving customers the impression that trueplay is essential for Sonos speakers.  They don’t want customers thinking they must have Apple, or buy a Roam or some other mic device  as a startup fee.  I think they also have marketing data that gives them an idea of how well Roams or other mic device would sell if they went that route.  I really hope they are already working on a mic device, but no clue whether that’s happening or not.

 

 

While in concept, I agree with you, Danny, I do think that the “average” user, whomever that is, wouldn’t quite understand the concept, and there would be substantial customer service issues if that were to be implemented in that fashion. Great for the “advanced” user, but not so great for the casual user, who doesn’t understand all of the surrounding potential issues. And, at least in my opinion, Sonos is going after the “average” user, not the advanced/audiophile  (whatever that means, likely $) market. 

I’d suspect there are a raft of things they could add to the controller in various places to satisfy a lot of the requests that are given in these forums. But they’d just make setup more complex for “Mom” or “Grandpa” who are equally part of the Sonos market. And provide them with additional ways to actually make things sound worse, rather than better. 

It’s a fine line, but Sonos seems to be walking it profitably for now. Sometimes I concur with them, sometimes I want just that little bit more….but then I do recognize that I am not specifically their target market. 

 

Understood, I just seeing if there were ways that a microphone device could appeal to more than just the android side of the market.

Just bought Beam gen 2. “Borrow an iphone from a friend” to utilize an important feature that is advertised as part of this 500 euro product? 
Nah, there’s options out there Sonos. Good alternative options.
Back to the box.

Reply