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I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"!  Especially after3+ years!!!  First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with.  Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems.  Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model.  So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water.   Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend.  Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion.  I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.

While in concept, I agree with you, Danny, I do think that the “average” user, whomever that is, wouldn’t quite understand the concept, and there would be substantial customer service issues if that were to be implemented in that fashion. Great for the “advanced” user, but not so great for the casual user, who doesn’t understand all of the surrounding potential issues. And, at least in my opinion, Sonos is going after the “average” user, not the advanced/audiophile  (whatever that means, likely $) market. 

I’d suspect there are a raft of things they could add to the controller in various places to satisfy a lot of the requests that are given in these forums. But they’d just make setup more complex for “Mom” or “Grandpa” who are equally part of the Sonos market. And provide them with additional ways to actually make things sound worse, rather than better. 

It’s a fine line, but Sonos seems to be walking it profitably for now. Sometimes I concur with them, sometimes I want just that little bit more….but then I do recognize that I am not specifically their target market. 


I’m also somewhat sensitive to the whole “I read about it in the forums, it must be happening” phenomenon…. :) 

I don’t mind speculation, I just worry when neophytes don’t understand that it’s merely thought, and not a promise that Sonos is doing something. 


I did borrow an iPhone to tune my speakers and it made a big difference. Problem is now I've moved them since they sound awful. I don't even know how to reset them to factory.

 

Here is how you turn off trueplay.  No need to do a factory reset.

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4919?language=en_US


Why not check the Sonos website (https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3222) before wildly borrowing and ordering iOS devices?


 It's very basic and convenient software that's been available on most home receivers for the past decade. 

 

Software is not the issue. These receivers are using a microphone of known characteristics. With Android devices, each model phone will have different microphone characteristics and these characteristics change during production. In order to achieve reliable results, SONOS would need to test each production run of Android phones and develop a database of microphone characteristics by phone serial number. Given the number of Android production runs, past and present, this is not a practical project.

Would you be willing to submit your Android to a service facility and have it’s microphone calibrated?


In addition to the raw microphone characteristics, case construction is in the mix. Also, how long do we need to wait before we know what the best selling Androids will be in a given year? Although this is not a scientific sample, my techie friends all have Androids, but a majority of people I encounter who own SONOS systems, use iPhones.

The SONOS database knows the iOS/Android ratio and may be aware of model numbers, but is unlikely to be able to track variations during production runs. SONOS would need to accumulate at least a year’s worth of data before deciding which Android models warrant further research. Then SONOS would need to sample units from different production runs in order to decide if it would be practical to develop a profile for that model. Regardless, millions of users who don’t own that model would be disappointed and grumbling that SONOS ignored the “best” Android.


Although this is not a scientific sample, my techie friends all have Androids, but a majority of people I encounter who own SONOS systems, use iPhones.

 

Digressing a little: I can completely understand the latter part quoted, but I also find it ironic/funny that there are some vocal fans of Sonos here who are also Apple haters, largely because - hold your breath - Apple is a closed system...:rofl:


Which is of course your choice.


Just bought Beam gen 2. “Borrow an iphone from a friend” to utilize an important feature that is advertised as part of this 500 euro product? 
Nah, there’s options out there Sonos. Good alternative options.
Back to the box.

 

And which of those options allows you to do custom room tuning using your Android phone?


I am an Android user and +1 to this. I fully understand the wide variety of Android devices and MIC characteristics make it a nightmare, though narrowing to Samsung/Pixel would reduce that. Simply providing a calibrated MIC can end this phone-specific mic dependency and make it universal. The local processing should be able to run on any phone except maybe the lowest end ones. My wife uses a supported iPhone so the “borrow” business is easy for me luckily.

Even for iOS devices Sonos has to keep measuring and supporting newer devices every year. Given the time it takes to do that I suspect that is repetitive, grunt engineering effort.

Another thought. The Sonos Roam/Move includes a TruePlay MIC. Why not allow using that to TruePlay other Sonos devices in the network. Should make sense from a sales point of view as well :grinning:


Given that MOVE and ROAM support auto Trueplay, I can imagine that SONOS will move in this direction for many products. It might be possible to use the microphone in a MOVE or ROAM to tune systems that do not include a microphone.


It does make me wonder if they never should have released TruePlay at all. Many people seem to think it is a silver bullet, and decry the lack of it.
 

Or at least kept it in reserve until there is a suitable alternative for all users. 


Agree on the old iPhone, I have one myself.

I call BS on the “variability/variation argument”, especially with modern mems microphone packages. All manufacturers would have variations across batches (including Apple).

Wherever the “umpteen variations of mic supply” statement comes from, doesn’t mean it still holds true today and is true for all Android manufacturers. I would be very surprised if the Google Pixel 6 flagship had any more mic variability than an iPhone (my opinion). So if your “fact” is from 2015, might be time for them to re-check 7 years later.

Whatever the real reason (technical/marketing/legal), I don’t think we will see TruePlay on Android any time soon.


I call BS on the “variability/variation argument”, especially with modern mems microphone packages.

An assertion that could be just as accurate as the earlier theory that the issue was related to legal cases.

Just ask yourself this: why would Sonos not implement Trueplay on Android if it was as straightforward as with (approved) iDevices? 

Well that’s an easy one, bad blood between them, potential $50M USD in yearly royalties, moving engineering teams to support Alexa instead instead of Google, not wanting to set a legal precedent of supporting Google products during a case (and appeals).

You have made an assumption that the exact same reason has held true since 2015 as to why they haven’t released it.

And you appear to have made a series of completely unfounded assumptions as well. 

Your profile is empty of Sonos products. You joined today, apparently to pick a fight. There’s a word for such antics. I refuse to feed this any further.

 


I call BS on the “variability/variation argument”, especially with modern mems microphone packages.

An assertion that could be just as accurate as the earlier theory that the issue was related to legal cases.

Just ask yourself this: why would Sonos not implement Trueplay on Android if it was as straightforward as with (approved) iDevices? 

Well that’s an easy one, bad blood between them, potential $50M USD in yearly royalties, moving engineering teams to support Alexa instead instead of Google, not wanting to set a legal precedent of supporting Google products during a case (and appeals).

You have made an assumption that the exact same reason has held true since 2015 as to why they haven’t released it.

And you appear to have made a series of completely unfounded assumptions as well. 

Your profile is empty of Sonos products. You joined today, apparently to pick a fight. There’s a word for such antics. I decline to feed this any further.

 

This is all rationale discussion, no one is fighting. I don’t agree with all of your statements and you don’t agree with mine, we are still forum pals right?

I do own Sonus products (6 of them in fact with receipts if you want to see them), I don’t need Sonus products in a profile to actually own Sonus products. This is how “facts” get distorted.


This is all rationale discussion, no one is fighting. I don’t agree with all of your statements and you don’t agree with mine, we are still forum pals right?

I do own Sonus products (6 of them in fact with receipts if you want to see them), I don’t need Sonus products in a profile to actually own Sonus products. This is how “facts” get distorted.

 

It’s ‘Sonos’, S-O-N-O-S.  How can we take you seriously when you can’t even get the name correct? 

And unless you have two accounts, one to register your products and one to post here (a highly unlikely occurrence), you most certainly would need products in your profile in order to own Sonos products.  Yet another clue to your purpose here. 


My original point still stands (it is not fact and is my opinion, as stated in my replies).

I would like to know when Sonos would support TruePlay on Android, I doubt it is for microphone variability reasons in 2021 - as it has been claimed. Whether you want to believe what Sonos tells you, or whether I question that makes little different to when/if we ever get it. It’s all just a healthy debate.

I don’t know how many accounts I have (and nor do I care), but sounds like I must have registered in here with a different email address than my Sonos app. I have Sonos products as stated, however that appears in a forum I will leave to whoever runs the forum. Wasn’t aware I should have checked my profile to make sure it was an exact match before chatting in here. So no, you don’t need Sonos products on your profile, even though you own said products.

You don't have to take me seriously, just do some critical thinking rather than sprouting what everyone else says. I’m not here to pick a fight, and yes mentioned Sonos multiple times so you can see I know how to spell it.

Good day to you all.

 


Take care!  Brush your hair!


ASS-U-ME.


Trueplay on Android being microphone dependant is just a stupid excuse not to implement it. A calibrated microphone costs nothing compared to Sonos or iOs products. On Android devices we are able to use external mics. A Dayton Audio iMM-6 costs 40$ and MiniDSP UMIK-1 costs 80$ and both work perfectly on any Android device. Why not just assume that everyone has a calibrated mic and enable Trueplay on Android? Then if the user is using an Android device’s internal microphone and the result is crappy he can disable Trueplay. This is not rocket science.

 

Did a little googling.  The Dayton clearly states that it’s designed for use with Apple products, and that’s calibrated.  It states that it works with android too, but doesn’t say anything about the calibration at that point.  Looks like you can get it calibrated on android, but you have to do some extra works.  Not 100% clear, but does seem to support the idea that calibrated mics is a bit more of an issue on androids then iOS.

https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1117/imm-6-idevice-calibrated-measurement-microphone

As for the MiniDSP...$80 seems generous.  Also apparently only supports Windows, Mac, and Linux.  But maybe there’s another version that I’m not seeing.

https://www.parts-express.com/miniDSP-UMIK-1-Omni-directional-USB-Measurement-Calibrated-Microphone-230-332

 

Anyway, I don’t see that assuming customers have their own calibrated mic is a good assumption.  Nor do I think it’s a good idea to allow customers to do trueplay when it will likely be flawed. 


$80 for a mike that is going to need fiddling doesn’t sound great.

My used Apple iPod touch 6th Generation (16 GB) cost about that.


Anybody have any idea what "a cheap Apple dingus off ebay to solve my TruePlay issues" Stanley_4 was referring to?.


I got one of these from ebay.

Apple iPod touch 6th Generation Space Gray (16 GB). Model A1574.
 

Similar ones: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2553889.m570.l1313&_nkw=Apple+iPod+touch+6th+Generation&_sacat=0

 

No idea what prices will be like with Apple ending production.

No idea about ongoing firmware / OS updates from Apple.

No idea what Sonos is going to do about supporting them either.

 

 


I use two sonos five on stereo as test system befor going further with sonos or not. 

After first setup the "standard sound" is disappointing to say it nice. I thought about sending both back. Accidentally a friend dropped and i used her iPhone for this true play stuff and then the sound is, well, ok.

But the system is designated for our cottage where nobody has a iPhone. Again the sound is not bad but far beyond to be good. As long as no iPhone addict drops in Sonos is good as a radio background player. 

Before, i had several other Sonos products on the list but didn't buy any, because of this annoying fact.

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I’m confused by your statement. The TruePlay tuning is stored on the speakers, until erased by doing another TruePlay tuning. Once it’s done, you can turn it off or on, using the Android devices. There is zero requirement, once TruePlay is done, for there to be a iOS device in the house.