I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"! Especially after3+ years!!! First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with. Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems. Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model. So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water. Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend. Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion. I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.
To answer your question "How many computers bought 20 years ago are still functioning effectively today?", I have 3 plus a server: 1 is an IBM mini tower with a Pentium 2 and 286 megs of RAM running XP, #2 is a Compaq DeskPro tower with a Pentium Ill & running XP, #3 is a Gateway tower running Windows ME with a Pentium Ill, as well as a HP MediaSmart Server running Windows Server 2003 (with a 12 TB HDD attached via USB).
Anyways, I was finally able to convince someone to install the Sonos app on their iPhone so that I could finally use Trueplay.
I will wait and see how the system is after I have been using for a while but the initial results were a let down.
Trueplay on Android being microphone dependant is just a stupid excuse not to implement it. A calibrated microphone costs nothing compared to Sonos or iOs products. On Android devices we are able to use external mics. A Dayton Audio iMM-6 costs 40$ and MiniDSP UMIK-1 costs 80$ and both work perfectly on any Android device. Why not just assume that everyone has a calibrated mic and enable Trueplay on Android? Then if the user is using an Android device’s internal microphone and the result is crappy he can disable Trueplay. This is not rocket science.
Did a little googling. The Dayton clearly states that it’s designed for use with Apple products, and that’s calibrated. It states that it works with android too, but doesn’t say anything about the calibration at that point. Looks like you can get it calibrated on android, but you have to do some extra works. Not 100% clear, but does seem to support the idea that calibrated mics is a bit more of an issue on androids then iOS.
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1117/imm-6-idevice-calibrated-measurement-microphone
As for the MiniDSP...$80 seems generous. Also apparently only supports Windows, Mac, and Linux. But maybe there’s another version that I’m not seeing.
Anyway, I don’t see that assuming customers have their own calibrated mic is a good assumption. Nor do I think it’s a good idea to allow customers to do trueplay when it will likely be flawed.
+23
I have no Android devices, but I have never bothered with Trueplay on any of my iOS devices.I consider it a niche feature that I have no interest in trying with on my ten Sonos devices.
I have no Android devices, but I have never bothered with Trueplay on any of my iOS devices.I consider it a niche feature that I have no interest in trying with on my ten Sonos devices.
I found it made a big difference, particularly on pop music at higher volumes where the uncorrected device was very poor. I only managed to tune it as a friend visited with an iphone - the original itouch that I bought to control the Sonos kit was obsoleted years ago and I’m certainly not buying another one.
Indeed, I thought that the tuning made such a big difference that I finally tuned by AV receiver/system, with a similar degree of improvement.
ISTM that compensating for different room acoustics is the way forward.
I realize it’s not the same thing exactly, but I think the best way to hear the difference tuning makes is with the Move and it’s auto trueplay. Let it sit in one location for awhile then move it to a different location in the house. You can immediately tell that it doesn’t sound as good in the new location until the trueplay fixes things.
I realize it’s not the same thing exactly, but I think the best way to hear the difference tuning makes is with the Move and it’s auto trueplay.
One can do this for every other tuned speaker by merely toggling true play on/off, something that can be done even with android phones, once the speaker has been tuned via an i device - and the result is close to immediate. Another reason why the restriction around using only the latter for tuning is less of an issue - if the tuned sound is not preferred, one can always revert to the untuned state via the android device.
Since I take care with speaker placement to start with, the differences are not more than very subtle for my play 1 units. But where my bonded Sub is concerned, true play does the job of eliminating bass bloat to a great extent.
I suspect it may do a lot more for the HT products which have to be placed under the TV, which may not acoustically be the best location for them.
Sonos would have to buy one of every model and buy another if any changes were made to the microphone circuitry.
The USB attached mike is a much more simpler fix.
Just as they've probably been doing all these years for every iPhone/iPad that Apple launched.
+22
There is a difference in an apologist and one who is simply acknowledging the way things are.
It is not being an apologist by explaining (to the best we can know) why things are as they are.
Sonos is the way Sonos is, nothing a small number of customers complaining do is going to change that. Again, not apologist, just acknowledging reality after years of experience.
Nothing wrong with complaining, I do my share (did a lot more when I was in the beta program too) but I have learned not to expect too much in the way of results or changes.
With that attitude I am much happier and less frustrated.
If the Android mic is indeed the limiting factor, I don't see why a Sonos mic plugged into an Android phone's usb port wouldn't be the solution. As a Samsung phone owner, I'm feeling a bit oppressed by the man.
Well, after we solve sex trafficking and slave labor in China, we’ll get right on your “oppression”.
I think SONOS can just make 2 microphones for Trueplay, one with USB type-c and the other with lightning...
Given that MOVE and ROAM support auto Trueplay, I can imagine that SONOS will move in this direction for many products. It might be possible to use the microphone in a MOVE or ROAM to tune systems that do not include a microphone.
+22
$80 for a mike that is going to need fiddling doesn’t sound great.
My used Apple iPod touch 6th Generation (16 GB) cost about that.
It does make me wonder if they never should have released TruePlay at all. Many people seem to think it is a silver bullet, and decry the lack of it.
Or at least kept it in reserve until there is a suitable alternative for all users.
Except, as I recall (and that may be faulty memory), the microphone in any single line of Android devices may not be the same across all of that model. So a (let’s pick one) Pixel X may have any of several different microphones, all somewhat similar, but not quite the same, in it.
I would not be surprised if a similar situation exists on the Apple side as well now. Still easier to manage on Apple side than all the android phone makers, but perhaps not as ideal as Sonos originally hoped.
I would be in favor of a separate tuning device as well.
It’s a pity the mic in the Sonos Roam couldn’t do this I think, but there are perhaps some privacy issues preventing it.
I did borrow an iPhone to tune my speakers and it made a big difference. Problem is now I've moved them since they sound awful. I don't even know how to reset them to factory.
Here is how you turn off trueplay. No need to do a factory reset.
I don’t know, Danny. Given the retirement of all non-music hardware (dock, controllers) Sonos has made, I wonder if that may have made them skittish. Although you could argue that such a device is a more natural extension of the sound process. Given that I happen to have multiple iOS devices that all function for this purpose, it’s not been something I’ve been overly worried about, but I do understand the desire from others.
Anybody have any idea what "a cheap Apple dingus off ebay to solve my TruePlay issues" Stanley_4 was referring to?.
I’d have to say the chances of a mic would be higher if I were the Product person, as there is technically no ‘software’ that would be on the mic that could ever potentially run out of memory, I would think all of the software would be on the speakers.
Not sure the price point of such a device makes a ton of sense, though. It would be, I suspect, a low cost item to manufacture, but all the ancillary costs might drive it up. But hard to get to $150 in my mind. However, I concur with your potential stumbling block for Android users.
It kind of makes me wish they’d never released it for iOS in the first place, or messaged it better. It’s just not a requirement to have good sounding speakers. It can help in some situations, but so many people think it should be the ‘silver bullet’ that must be done or else they’re missing out on something ‘special’.
+22
I got one of these from ebay.
Apple iPod touch 6th Generation Space Gray (16 GB). Model A1574.
Similar ones: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2553889.m570.l1313&_nkw=Apple+iPod+touch+6th+Generation&_sacat=0
No idea what prices will be like with Apple ending production.
No idea about ongoing firmware / OS updates from Apple.
No idea what Sonos is going to do about supporting them either.
Interesting. That certainly increases the complexity of the system function , to appropriately implement for Android. Although if they were to do something akin to pulling the processing back to the system, rather than the controller device itself, they might be able to drop the iOS specific software, and maintain a single process… it’s fun to speculate about something that will most likely never occur, since it’s hard to be ‘wrong’.
And thank you for the link. I was struck, particularly, while reading through it, with this paragraph, which perhaps explains why speakers with mics are not potentially the best devices for dealing with the entire system, rather than their individual speaker.
A single microphone-position measurement will scramble the problems caused by the speaker location with the problems associated with that specific measurement location. That’s why corrections are best made based on measurements taken in many places in the room, and why the graph above shows room-averaged measurements.
Further proof that just searching on Sonos’ own site has substantial benefits ;)
I’m with
The guesswork about “there must be something else” is just guesswork unless Sonos have explained that there is something else at play.
My situation is I have no iOS devices, and not many people who visit the house have them. When someone does I don’t want to have to ask them to borrow their phone, install Sonos on it, add to the network and then wonder if all the dirt around their phone mic is going to affect the tuning process. I imagine it would! So do I then get out an old toothbrush to remove their cover and try cleaning the mic hole(s)? All while the perplexed owner of phone is wondering why I’m going through all this so my “really expensive” speaker will sound good. No thanks.
I’ve spent a lot of money on Sonos over the years, starting with 2 gen 1 Play 5s around 2010. Their speakers are great but I want them to perform to the best of their ability without the hassle of borrowing phones and wondering at the accuracy of the tuning. Never mind the stick I get from my Bose loving and iPhone wielding brother.
I have 2 Fives, Arc+sub+2xPlay1s and 6xOnes/Play1s. Every time I adjust a speaker position (more often for the ones) I would need to retune. Every time a room’s soft furnishings are changed I should probably retune as well.
As it stands only 2 of my 8 sonos rooms are tuned and the only frequent visitor with an iPhone is a farmer...I would need more than a toothbrush to clean that phone! I have looked at buying an older iOS device just to tune but the fact it will eventually be obsolete rules that out - I’m not into throw away purchases.
Have Sonos explained, other than the mic thing, what the blockers are? If not it’s a little hard to defend their long standing position on this. Maybe their seniors have lots of Apple shares and this “technical constraint” suits them fine? 😉
I get that iOS device owners out there think this isn’t that big a deal. And maybe Android device owners, who aren’t that fussy about how it sounds, don’t mind either. I spent money on these speakers because I am fussy….maybe fussy android users are fringe case! 😅
Interesting enough, although I have an android that didn’t have the trueplay option, once I ran the trueplay on an Iphone my son had, it appeared as an option on my android. At least I can switch it on and off within the android. You just can’t retune.
I would think all of the software would be on the speakers.
Actually all the heavy processing for the Trueplay tuning is carried out on the iDevice. The filters are then uploaded to the speakers.
https://tech-blog.sonos.com/posts/trueplay-spectral-correction/
Scroll down to the section headed “Trueplay can help!”
Great article. I understand the aspect that a single point measurement, while increasing audio quality at the measurement location, can actually make it sound worse every where else. I still think that it could be useful to be useful for the cases where you wish to optimize for a specific location, such as a theatre room or similar. Or, in a room where there are multiple seating areas, no so much to deal with volume issues, but with timing issues, so left and right channel audio reaches the mic location at the same time.
But, I suspect I don’t understand this as well as I think do...and I don’t think I understand it all that well already.
While in concept, I agree with you, Danny, I do think that the “average” user, whomever that is, wouldn’t quite understand the concept, and there would be substantial customer service issues if that were to be implemented in that fashion. Great for the “advanced” user, but not so great for the casual user, who doesn’t understand all of the surrounding potential issues. And, at least in my opinion, Sonos is going after the “average” user, not the advanced/audiophile (whatever that means, likely $) market.
I’d suspect there are a raft of things they could add to the controller in various places to satisfy a lot of the requests that are given in these forums. But they’d just make setup more complex for “Mom” or “Grandpa” who are equally part of the Sonos market. And provide them with additional ways to actually make things sound worse, rather than better.
It’s a fine line, but Sonos seems to be walking it profitably for now. Sometimes I concur with them, sometimes I want just that little bit more….but then I do recognize that I am not specifically their target market.
+17
Which is of course your choice.
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