Android and Trueplay


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I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"!  Especially after3+ years!!!  First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with.  Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems.  Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model.  So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water.   Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend.  Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion.  I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.

Xander P 2 years ago

Hi @ihavoc, thanks for reaching out to the Sonos Community.

While it may not be specified on the Arc page that an iOS device is required for Trueplay, you can find here a list of Trueplay compatible devices, and it’s also stated on the main TruePlay page that an iOS device is required - that being said I’ll be happy to pass on your feedback to make it a little more obvious.

Regarding the different models of each iPhone line having different microphones - while this is true, the number of different models of phone running Android operating systems is on a different scale (a quick Google search showed 24,000 different models in 2015), with potentially thousands of different models of microphone installed, and different combinations of microphone, OS, and other hardware components. While we would love to bring Trueplay support to all Sonos systems, accounting for that level of variability in a process which requires precise measurements like Trueplay is unfortunately not feasible.

I do agree though that bringing Trueplay to non-iOS households (like my own) would be a great improvement, and hopefully it’s something that will be possible in the future.

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Not saying they would, just saying the lack of support from iOS users to pressure Sonos to lend an ear and fix the problem is sad, in fact it's just the opposite.  There has been plenty of backlash from Apple users in previous posts that basically say quit whining Android users and just live with it...it's been well over 5 years that this has been an issue with Sonos.  Other companies, other products have functional apps that equally support android and iOS, so wouldn't be out of the realm of reality for Sonos to fix the problem.  Reading about microphone variability among iPhones and other iOS devices makes me question the reasoning Sonos gives.  I assume you are an iOS user, and I'm not anti apple in any way.  But you would not appreciate me telling you to quit whining and just live with a less than equal experience just because you had a different device with a different OS.

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Android users have been complaining about not being able to do Trueplay tuning for years yet they still continue to purchase Sonos products. Sonos must be doing something right.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.  Why all the negativity towards a certain group, why should they (we) be excluded from the full experience?

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I was "duped" by the salesman, my mistake for not doing the research.  Caveat emptor!  But not a good deal of notification by Sonos to tell me boldly that your experience will be less than optimal if you don't have iOS.  

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Honestly the Sonos Arc will be my first and last Sonos device unless they change this stance and others.  As others have stated nothing on the Sonos Arc main page mentions TruePlay is iOS only. In my opinion this is very deceptive in their marketing. From the Sonos Arc main page below.

“Tuned to perfection

Trueplay tuning technology optimizes the sound for the unique acoustics of the room where Arc is placed, calibrating the height channels for precise localization.”

The omission of DTS, which I did know going into buying the Arc, is just dumb, charge extra for a DTS model.  A lot of people are going out and buying a HDFury Arcana to solve LipSync issues because of a lack of an HDMI input on the device. Another poor design decision.  If it wasn’t for the rave reviews of the Arc on sound quality I would have passed.

I would gladly buy an approved or official Sonos mic to plug into my android device to run tune my Arc. I work for a Vendor myself and nothing pisses customers off more than a nonchalant answer like borrow a friends iPhone.  Borrowing an iPhone is not easy for me, especially in COVID days, almost all my friends and family use Android. 

Lastly if I decide to move my device to another TV or rearrange my room I need to inconvenience someone else so I can tune my Sonos is absurd.  

I thought when I bought the Arc it was going to be the beginning of a larger Sonos rollout in my house but sadly I will be looking for alternatives.

 

I use whatever works well for me with no hard and fast attachment to any brand - thus, I have Mac, Android phone, Sonos and Echo. I have not found it that hard to borrow an iPhone for the rare occasions  tuning is needed because once done, there is no need for the iPhone. 

But yes, Sonos should have fixed this issue by now, no argument about that.

As an android user, I would like to have seen them come up with some sort of Trueplay tuning option by now.  I don’t know how difficult it is to do this.  It seems that if variations in mic hardware is the issue, a simple plug in mic to your phone/tablets headphone jack should do it.  It makes me think it goes beyond just mic hardware.  It’s all speculation though, so who knows.

Regardless, the issue isn’t going to keep my from buying Sonos, or looking to spend money to replace my system.  

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Must agree with BlackWatch,

It IS kinda strange (and disappointing) that Sonos is so biased towards iOS when there are more than twice as many Android users out there.

To leave out a feature like TruePlay from Android as well as only supporting AirPlay(2) is simply (In lack of other words) ridiculous,
 

I have never bothered with Trueplay on any of my iOS devices.

Room correction is routinely cited as one of the most important ‘tweaks’ one can make. Its effects range from marginal to transformative, depending on the amount of resonance, reinforcement, etc.

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@John B that is 100% an untrue statement for me.  I have been optimizing my audio environments since my first Yamaha AVR 17 years ago.  I bought the Sonos because it offered this capability.  Every audio system I have purchased has been optimized as well as my video and it is something that I require when purchasing a product. 

So don’t assume what you don’t know.  Shame on Sonos for false advertising for what is a relatively easy and cheap fix to give Android TruPlay support via an external mic. 

And Sonos did not invent “TruePlay” they gave acoustical room optimization a marketing name but the technology has been around for decades. 

 

 

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While we are talking “pet features”, another one besides TruPlay is AirPlay2.
Having Airplay is neat for Apple users.
Having ChromeCast would equally be neat for Android users. 

Bluetooth streaming would also be a nice feature, and considering the cost of a bluetooth module these days, I doubt it would even be possible to see on the pricetag. 

As for market shares, the most recent and reliable data I could find, indicate that Android + Apple has 99% of the market (current, active devices - not “activated” devices).
However.
Besides North America and a few Asian countries heavily biased towards Apple, Android outnumbers Apple worldwide by 2:1 with +70% of the market. 
You can (fairly) argue that Apple users are more likely to shop for products like Sonos - but I’m not arguing that Sonos should prioritize Android at the cost of Apple - only that Android shouldn’t be neglected like it seems to be. 

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This is one area the BOSE 700 wins …..has a little headset mic you wear that you do room correction with. You look stupid while doing it but it works

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@Occam's Cat , you're in the wrong place if you expect such reasonableness to be welcomed.

To expect a billion dollar company to have managed to get hold of a few devices and added them before widespread public adoption seems reasonable, nevermind so long afterwards.

 

I believe that Sonos is going to suffer the same fate the BlackBerry phone went through 

Hi. I have been a fairly active member of this community for a decade now and have lost count of the number of times I have seen this prediction. The only thing that changes is the reason given for why this Is going to happen. 

Here in the Community we don’t know the percentage of Apple vs Android users. Based on my own observations, tech orientated users often use Android and non tech users almost always use Apple controllers. Users looking for the lowest price will use Android.

If you want to claim that SONOS made a mistake, the original mistake was to offer Apple users a free, convenient way to improve their audio system with Trueplay. This was possible for Apple products because of the limited number of microphones to deal with. Even if one assumes that the microphone characteristics for the entire run of an Android model are identical (there are debates about this point), there are many, many models and manufacturers, each potentially using a different microphone and microphone placement in the phone/pad body.

The cheap Android users may not want to invest in SONOS, regardless of features, and would certainly chafe at the idea of needing to purchase a separate calibration device -- especially if Apple users did not need this device. Overall it would be cheaper for SONOS to give up the idea of using Apple products for Trueplay and simply raise prices and add the calibration device into the package. 

The numbers were used so that a person could understand my reference as to the difference between the sound the system produced prior to the downgrade that resulted when my iPhone 6 was no longer supported. 

I know of no other way to offer a means of reference regarding the differences in sound level, how would you have done it? 

 

 

This doesn’t really make sense. When playing audio files from your local library, the audio signal does not travel through your phone or whatever device you may be using for control.  The connection is between where ever you file is located and the speaker(s) themselves.  So any sort of code change, are drop in support in this case, of a phone should have no impact on playback really.  The changes would be in the source file or on the firmware of speakers themselves.  

If you want to verify this, start playback of your files, then shut off all your phones/tablets, etc.  Music will continue to play on.

It’s not likely that regular folk will want to invest another $40 or $80 when so many complain about the cost of SONOS products. And there will certainly be complaints that Apple users don’t need to incur this expanse.

With regard to the cost of SONOS products ‘overpriced’ or not depends on the point of view. If one is expecting a SONOS unit to be a simple Bluetooth computer or phone accessory, SONOS is expensive. I’ve seen $10 Bluetooth speakers hanging on department store pegs near the checkout counter. However, in the context of whole house audio, SONOS is not expensive and it works better and has a more consistent user interface than other products.  SONOS will support up to 32 rooms. Look at other products and most will hit a limit at less than 10 rooms. Also, SONOS players from 2005 are still viable.

Android users have been complaining about not being able to do Trueplay tuning for years yet they still continue to purchase Sonos products. Sonos must be doing something right.

True but this is something you don't necessarily realise till you've bought into a system and even the cheapest speakers aren't budget price, so once your in you either lose money and move on or stick with it. I'm lucky that I could access an iPhone but that doesn't excuse Sonos from giving all their users quality products and support, especially at Sonos prices. 

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I doubt any Sonos product will last as long as my legacy audio/video, including my SelectaVision video disc player and Yamaha YPD-6 turntable (from a 1978 purchase).

 

Almost certainly true. But is it a fair comparison?
 

The capabilities Sonos offers need a computer to achieve it. How many domestic products with built-in computers do you know that are (a) still functional, (b) still supported by their manufacturer, and (c) still receiving updates? 

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Sonos has been complaining about unfair practices from Google and Amazon for loss of customers, and I agree mostly with what Sonos has been saying.  That is another reason I went to Sonos, but if they don’t listen to their customer and come up with lame excuses as to why they cannot support features.  Then that will be why they lose me as a customer not because of Google/Amazon etc.  Customer satisfaction is how you keep customers and I am not satisfied

Userlevel 7

And unless you have two accounts, one to register your products and one to post here (a highly unlikely occurrence), you most certainly would need products in your profile in order to own Sonos products.  Yet another clue to your purpose here. 


The “Sonos products I own” on your Community profile is in no way linked to your actual “System” devices when you log into your Sonos account online. It’s a simple optional tick box selection.

 

If Sonos had never introduced Trueplay on iOS, Android users would be entirely happy with their setup, which would have sounded and cost the same as now.  But out of some crazed jealousy towards iOS users, in the eyes of a small minority of Android users, somebody else’s good fortune becomes their bad luck

FWIW, I am an Android user, but one whose wife has an iPad.)  Many Android users will be able to borrow an iOS device' from friends or family for the few minutes required.

It seems clear that for newer products Sonos is moving away from using external devices in tuning, a much more controllable approach.

 

Android users have been complaining about not being able to do Trueplay tuning for years yet they still continue to purchase Sonos products. Sonos must be doing something right.

Or we did not know.  Just did not even dream it would be an issue, my fault for not finding something that should not be an issue.

 if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend.

I don’t disagree with your post, but why would things be any different from what they are if the tables are turned? Those with iPhones would then shout just as much as android users do. Although given the reason that Sonos puts forth for why android is not accommodated, if android users were to be accommodated, so would be iPhone users.

I think that having sold almost 30 million units, and expecting to double their revenue by 2024 (mostly at the cost of Android users), Sonos could afford to buy AT LEAST phones from the biggest brands in the Android market, and test them in order to get to know their microphone frequencies response, and make Trueplay available for those. The idea of borrowing an iPhone from a friend is just ridiculous...

Userlevel 3

@cpnichols be aware if you rearrange your room or move it to another room you should rerun the calibration as your acoustical environment has changed. 

Something as simple as changing the furniture in you room can effect the acoustical sound even with the Sonos in the same location.

Also another user posted he sent his Sonos in for repair and he lost the TruePlay settings when returned.

Just wanted to make you aware it may not be a one and done :grinning:

 

 

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